| Author |
Messages |
|
LOCKEroots
Posts:16
 |
| 09 May 2008 03:16 |
 Alert
|
I just uploaded the new Romany DNA project web site. The site is still under construction so bear with me while I spruce it up and add more content.
http://home.comcast.net/~GypsyDNA/RomanyDNAproject.html
|
|
|
|
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:230
|
| 04 Jun 2008 00:26 |
Alert
|
I've just had a quick look and I think this is fantastic. It is no good travellers lying about their origin etc as we all need to know the truth about ourselves.
Roms on the continent look Indian, have Indian DNA and in the UK we are very much now a mix breed.
My amily is Eastwood and although some of us very dark. My grandfather was very dark for one and definetely had Indian appearances, there are other Eastwood's like the footballer Freddy Eastwood who is blonde. We know Freddy is not full traveller as his grandmother is Welsh hence him playing for Wales in World cup.
Amongst the family there is a tale that the original name was Oysted and that he killed a man and took the name Eastwood to get away with the offence.
I have looked into it and there is no name as Oysted. The only name is Isted which when considerring the accent of Kent travellers this is how they would pronounce Isted (we pronounce the name Cooper more like cupper as the oo is very quick and television as talavision).
The surname Isted is not a recorded Romani name and when looking on the net there is a website made by a Bruce Isted who studies the name and its origin seems to be Scandinavian coming across via the Normans as knights.
All the Eastwood travellers are mostly around NW Kent and south Essex which suggest that it is not the oldest of names otherwise it would have travelled further afield. There are many very large frame strong tall Eastwood and it would seem a common characteristic across the family suggesting the original Eastwood who killed the man was a big man.
My grandmother was a Ripley and I have heard my father mention that they were showground travellers. Many of the Ripleys are fair skinned and some are blonde. I also have cousins through marriage who are Penfold and Arnolds and I have reason to believe that these were also Showground travellers. I have cousins who are Beany's and they also are very fair skinned and have blondes.
My cousins who are Smiths like the Lees, Boswells and Coopers are usually dark in appearance. Some of the Smiths and Coopers are very dark. Interestingly these names are recorded as traditional old Romani names and amongst writers by these families (also the Woods) they mention how their older folki would refer to them as the true Romani and they would only marry from the families they were related to. |
|
|
|
|
kilby
Posts:405
|
| 04 Jun 2008 14:39 |
Alert
|
Hello CJ, very intrestin what you just said an i knnow as you are good on research an thing like that, well now i just want to ask you one thing an thats, what is the best site to use for findin out about our own people. There,s so many and i cant make up mi mind which one is best so will you tell me? The ony one what i,ve sorta looked at is
ancestry .co.uk an that looked very promisin but i would like your advise on it before i join up with em. All the best CJ -----kilby------ |
|
|
|
|
LOCKEroots
Posts:16
|
| 09 Jul 2008 05:21 |
Alert
|
Hi CJ
I hope the Eastwood's will join us in the DNA project one day. My Lock's can be traced back to 1699, and they are always being left out of the list of Rom surnames lol.
As you have seen from the DNA web page, we now have 7 Locke's DNA tested, several Bailey's, 1 Lee, 1 Campbell. I don't know what we are going to learn, but it should be interesting regardless the outcome. |
|
|
|
|
Romanywonder
Posts:17
|
| 05 Aug 2008 14:09 |
Alert
|
Posted By Cj Eastwood on 04 Jun 2008 00:26
I've just had a quick look and I think this is fantastic. It is no good travellers lying about their origin etc as we all need to know the truth about ourselves.
Roms on the continent look Indian, have Indian DNA and in the UK we are very much now a mix breed.
My amily is Eastwood and although some of us very dark. My grandfather was very dark for one and definetely had Indian appearances, there are other Eastwood's like the footballer Freddy Eastwood who is blonde. We know Freddy is not full traveller as his grandmother is Welsh hence him playing for Wales in World cup.
Amongst the family there is a tale that the original name was Oysted and that he killed a man and took the name Eastwood to get away with the offence.
I have looked into it and there is no name as Oysted. The only name is Isted which when considerring the accent of Kent travellers this is how they would pronounce Isted (we pronounce the name Cooper more like cupper as the oo is very quick and television as talavision).
The surname Isted is not a recorded Romani name and when looking on the net there is a website made by a Bruce Isted who studies the name and its origin seems to be Scandinavian coming across via the Normans as knights.
All the Eastwood travellers are mostly around NW Kent and south Essex which suggest that it is not the oldest of names otherwise it would have travelled further afield. There are many very large frame strong tall Eastwood and it would seem a common characteristic across the family suggesting the original Eastwood who killed the man was a big man.
My grandmother was a Ripley and I have heard my father mention that they were showground travellers. Many of the Ripleys are fair skinned and some are blonde. I also have cousins through marriage who are Penfold and Arnolds and I have reason to believe that these were also Showground travellers. I have cousins who are Beany's and they also are very fair skinned and have blondes.
My cousins who are Smiths like the Lees, Boswells and Coopers are usually dark in appearance. Some of the Smiths and Coopers are very dark. Interestingly these names are recorded as traditional old Romani names and amongst writers by these families (also the Woods) they mention how their older folki would refer to them as the true Romani and they would only marry from the families they were related to.
Hi CJ
I find your info on the Romany DNA very intresting (probably more than you can relize and gather from my posting). You see i am quite dark in colouring hair and eyes and have a slight tan to my skin. I have always thought how a lot of the dark featured Romanies have that descent look of the Indians. To me there is alot of similarities between us Romany folk and the Indians. A lot of are superstitions are similar and as well as the potion and lotion side of things. Also i feel a lot of Romanies are like freesprited people i always say that's what i am. The reason for my post is i really know very little about where we apparently descend from. If it is true fact that we do descend from an Indian culture can you please or someone from the board tell me more about our descents and like how we came to these lands and why?? I know it must cover such a lot of info but would appreciate any info as i am so curious about who and what i came from. I'm half Romany and half Gorgi, although my mothers side (Romany side) has many true Romanies/Gypsies, being my grandfather and grandmother were true blooded Romay/Gypsy.As for finding out family tree i think mine maybe prove to be difficult and come to a quick end if i was to persue. it.
|
|
|
|
|
Ditch
Posts:8
|
| 08 Aug 2008 23:02 |
Alert
|
Posted By Romanywonder on 05 Aug 2008 14:09
As for finding out family tree i think mine maybe prove to be difficult and come to a quick end if i was to persue. it.
What makes ye say that?
|
|
|
|
|
RomaniTisa
Posts:53
|
| 14 Aug 2008 12:34 |
Alert
|
WOW this sounds really interesting!!! I'll be up for this...actually I have already got in contact with them, LOL. I am dark as a lot of you know and my ancestors were EVEN darker then me!
I currently study 'psychology and the social sciences' and will be carrying out studies into DNA later on in my course. I find DNA fascinating especially when somehow I was able to produce a ‘golden child’. (My daughter has golden blonde hair and big blue eyes and wait for it…pale skin!)
I am really excited about this many thanks for posting the link
|
|
|
|
|
RomaniTisa
Posts:53
|
| 16 Aug 2008 16:40 |
Alert
|
So is anyone else going ahead with this? I think the cheapest test is about $100 which is about £50 odd pounds? Correct me if I am wrong, LOL. I'm going go ahead with this and I'll let you know my results...
According to my geneology research and family knowledge I am of Romani, Irish Traveller and Gitano ancestral heritiage, lets see if this is true...
|
|
|
|
|
valerierackly
Posts:971
|
| 18 Aug 2008 11:51 |
Alert
|
| I'm thinking about it. |
|
May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
|
|
RomaniTisa
Posts:53
|
| 27 Aug 2008 12:41 |
Alert
|
I recieved the test on Tuesday, LOCKEroots. I've just done the final swap test and should be popping it in the post shortly.
Hi Valerier if you are still interested in doing the test make sure you order the 'mtDNAPlus'. I have just got the invoice through as well and the total is $155.00. I am surprised how quickly it arrived as it has come from Houston in Texas.
Anyway if anyone is interested I'll let you know my results and what you get.
|
|
|
|
|
Demaris
Posts:6
|
| 11 Sep 2008 07:08 |
Alert
|
Looking at these replies it makes me think really how coming from a Romany lineage has really affected me and my kids. Not just in the way we look.
My grandad was the last pure Romany in my family, and we didn't find out until after he had died that was so, we never had a clue.
Without sounding all morose about it, I guess I am a bit angry too, my life has not been easy so far (i'm 35) and I believe having this Romany in me has made me how I am. I have never fitted in with people in social groups, at school, college etc. I am always moving around, i've just had my 18th house move since I was 16 and am already feeling the need to move on after only 5 months in this house. I have been through many a relationship because they haven't understood my need to move on. Within my small family circle, I was always the artistic creative one, it seemed so odd as my immediate family were not like that. But as i got older and started looking at my extended family (uncles and aunts) there was a few like me. An uncle who would dissapear (even now) and get in touch after a few years later. I remember thinking in my teens, i must be adopted lol.
My dad is dark and I am dark, my Mum would joke about when I was born that i obviously was the coalman's child as i was so dark lol. I have always been into spiritual things, even from a young age and became a 'pagan' in my teens. I just always felt different, and was teased at school for being a loner.
Looking back i now realise my grandad taught me and my sisters the way of the Romany, without actually talking about it. he would speak in riddles sometimes and use a different language to recite poems(which we assumed was welsh as he was) but now know to be Romany. We walked for miles with him, grew plants and picked flowers, lit fires and left messages for each other in the ground. They were such wonderful times.
When we found out who we were, I wasn't shocked to be honest, and it was a bit of a relief to know I actually haven't spent my life just being odd. I was sad because there was so many questions I would have asked my grandad. I don't know his reasons for keeping it from us, I know he wasn't a pikey because we have found our family now and they spent years searching for him.
I have settled down know with my partner, and he knows I can't ever stay in one place for long, so we have agreed to go travelling during summer holidays. I want to teach my children from an early age where they come from because I don't want them growing up like I did, feeling I didn't belong anywhere.
My son is dark and has my traits, he is only 7 and I have to go hunting for him in the fields behind our house knowing full well he is 'acting up' like I did. My daughter is blonde like her dad (my ex husband). It seesm the DNA is stronger in some than others?
I feel a bit sad though, that there must be hunderds of people out there like me, who don't feel proper English nor proper Romany, and are a bit lost. |
|
|
|
|
Gypsy hawkins
Posts:24
|
| 12 Sep 2008 04:34 |
Alert
|
| Cj Eastwood, Hello.Interested to read your post.My 2x Great Grandmother had a sister named Lucy who came from Dartford,Kent.Lucy married John Ripley and had a large family.My 2x gt Granny was named Phoebe and she married Sam Ayres.When Lucy and Phoebe's mother died aged 100 at Aldershot in 1927, Lucy Ripley from Dartford and Phoebe Ayres,daughters,attended their mothers funeral,whos name was Priscilla(Prissy)Bowers.Lucy and Phoebe's father was Jonh Smith.they had other sister,Rachael married Henry Castle, Betsy married Tom Rowland,and brothers Andrew Smith married Amy Parker,John Smith married Mary Ann Matthews,and Joe(who went in the name of Dean).I know the family have a long history stretching back hundreds of years on the old Charter Fairgrounds.These Smith's our one of the oldest Showmen families and are on the rare entry of 1861 census for Hampton Wick where it's the first time that a entire pleasure fair was included in a census,Thames enbankement,in tents and carts,Penfold family were with them!.CJ,check your family and ask around for me please to see if anyone remembers John(Jack?)Ripley and Lucy,They lived in caravans on their own piece of land at Dartford somewhere.All the best,Kerry |
|
|
|
|
RomaniTisa
Posts:53
|
| 11 Oct 2008 08:25 |
Alert
|
| I get the results for the DNA thingy the end of Nov (hopefully), but it only covers the female linage of my mother's side. Is anyone else going to do this? (OR am I the only dinlo, LOL). |
|
|
|
|
LOCKEroots
Posts:16
|
| 04 Nov 2008 03:42 |
Alert
|
Another update
Another Mr. Lee has joined the project, but he used another DNA company, and does not DNA match his paper trail proven
Lee Cousin.
A Mr. Burton who also used a different DNA company, reported him as being in Y Haplo Group J2, but he is a 24/25 DNA match to me, which highly suggests the other company reported his Haplo Group in error. Mr. Burton is most likley also in
Y Haplo Group H* just like the Lee's, Bailey's and Lock(e)'s.
As Roms and Travelers, we don't need any more confusion or headaches lol. By using multiple DNA companies, we have already seen several reporting errors, and found 2 paper trail proven Lee cousins if we believe the test results, aren't related according to the DNA tests.
This misreporting happens for several reasons. The other DNA companies have their own methods and reporting practices, which don't always conform to the industry standard. If they all followed the same industry standard, there would be no errors because they all would be following the same set of guild lines.
The only way to be able to use 1 set of standards and reporting methods is, we all must agree to use the same company, so there is no more reporting errors or confusion. Which is why I choose the company I did for us to do the testing with, because this company is the worlds largest genetic genealogy DNA company with the worlds largest database. And more importantly, DNA testing is their ownly business! Unlike other DNA companies who are in the Genealogy business who jumped in to DNA testing to grab the market share. The genealogy based companies aren't true DNA companies, and as such, often get the data wrong.
Mr. Lee of Australia had also tested with a different company, and they reported him to be in Y Haplo Group I.
But after seeing his test results, I was convinced he was in Y Haplo Group H* and after he retested using the same company that I had suggested, he was in Y Haplo Group H1a just like I suspected.
Same thing with Mr. Burton, he is reported to be in Y Haplo Group J2, yet he shares 24 of 25 makers in common with me, which very highly suggests he is a Rom in Y Haplo Group H1a, not J2.
If we continue using multiple DNA companies, we are only hurting ourselves.
There is a industry standard set in place, yet it is very obvious to me few companies are using the industry standards.
The company I choose for us, does all it can to keep pace with the latest standards, and is always willing to correct errors when found, which isn't very darn often when they make an error.
I can not stress this fact enough, we must agree to use the same company in order to have 1 set standard and reporting practices. Do this, and we can learn a lot more with few headaches.
I have emailed Mr. Burton to see if he has any knowledge of his Roma heritage. I am 99.9% certain he must be a Rom just by looking at his test results. And if he does tell me he does know of his Romany hertiage, this will now place the
Lee's, Bailey's, Lock(e)'s and Burton's in Y Haplo Group H*.
And with the advancement of DNA technology, the company I choose for us to use, has now created the
Deep Clade SNP test. This test was greatly needed to help break down Y Haplo Group H in to smaller sub groups.
Of the suspected and proven Roma males who upgraded to this new test, were all placed in Y Haplo Group H1a.
That is exactly the kind of data Roms needed! The sub groups will one day play a very important roll in helping identify who our ancient ancestors were. To lump everyone in to Y Haplo Group H, was to vague of an answer, we needed more detailed answers, and the new Deep Clade SNP test did exactly what it was intended to do, it broke us up in to smaller sub groups.
So the historians now can no longer be so vague in stating European Romany are from India and Pakistan.
Now with this new test, we now know only a select hand full of men from India and Pakistan were moved in to this new sub group H1a, but not all were. Some men of India and Pakistan, remained in Y Haplo H, or placed in H1. Only a couple were moved to H1a like the suspected and proven Roma males, and that is exactly the kind of information Roms needed to know.
Thats kind of like saying, all Whites are European, wrong! That is to vague of an answer!
So this new Deep Clade SNP test did what we expected it to do, it in some cases, greatly distanced Roms from some men of India and Pakistan, but at the same time, showed us in some cases we were much closer to other men of India and Pakistan.
And believe me folks, that has far more meaning then most understand!
I pushed hard to have this new Deep Clade SNP test to be created, yes it is an added expence, but was well worth the cost and effort, because we now know of the suspected and proven Roma males who orded this new test, were all placed in
Y Haplo Group H1a.
The 2 Romany / Traveler ladies who joined the Project, are in mtDNA Haplo Group U2 and U5. It is far to early to know if this will be typical of all Roma ladies through out Europe. One Romany female DNA study suggests Roma ladies that they tested, were in mtDNA Haplo Group M. Only time will tell us what Haplo Groups you ladies represent as a lot more Romany / Traveler ladies join the project.
We know that on average from what the privately funded Romany Gypsy DNA studies that have been done in Bulgaria, Portugal, Hungary, tells us that at least 70% of Roma males are in this rare Haplo Group H*.
So it isn't surprising to find Roma males of England, Australia, USA share this same rare Haplo Group with other European Romany groups. Roms in Canada haven't joined us in the DNA project yet, but we can expect similar results from them too. |
|
|
|
|
|