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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 27 Jun 2007 20:15 |
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I want to know if any-one knows of an organisation out the who are there to help gypsy people to get the equal rights as is offered to other minority groups.
Eg; over charging of electricity, Gas, and to be addressed appropriatly.
my sisters address is cottingley springs caravan site, and because of this when she goes for an interveiw or to open an account of any kind,they are often revoked because of where here address is. If here address was just as a domestic address was she would be less likely to suffer from discriminaion due to her ethnicity.this is a common problem that my family have come across for some time. my aunt was working for a cleaning organisation and was offered promotion, when here employers noticed at her address the possition was revoked and so she lost her job.she was unable to find appropriate employment because her address had caravan site in the title.
There is going to be a meeting for the travellers in leeds next month and both me and my sister will be bringing these issues up in the meeting.
I used to be a community rep for sure start in my area, and came across that the local gypsy sites in the area where not included in any-ones area due to them not being rsidential council properties. this was a problem when trying to get repairs done and accessing local services such as waist management, bin/refuse services, pest control , enviroment health services, often the only way to get any-thing done was to say you would take it to the press.
I was also made aware that gypsy and traveller families where more likely to suffer from child/ infant mortality and maternal deaths due to lack of addiquate medical services.
child poverty was an issues that was brought up too in the meetings i attended, so the outcome of me being involved in my area sure start was that they agreed to cove the site near to my area,but that still left out many others. I have been told that leeds site has got good services, and am aware that the education leeds are doing a wonderful job. But that just leaves the site itself. the residents are being vastly charged for there electricity, and many have complained but due to lack of education the just leave it and pay it.If some-one wont help them they have no chioce. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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victor
Posts:0
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| 08 Jul 2007 15:11 |
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My dear Valerierackly, I was surprised to hear that in the first world like England, has these problems and all out discrimination of the Gypsies travelers, I wonder if it is the same for Irish travelers, I doubt it very much, Like I said it before, time has changed but we Gypsies have not, as far as travaling is conserned, we must by all means stop to travel, and live in a house, and give education to our kids, don't we all realize that the world has changed,
Victor
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 08 Jul 2007 17:19 |
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My dear victor it is very nice to hear from you. I hope you have been keeping well since we last corrosponded.
Englands problems and policy's towards Travellers and Gypsies of all of our people are very truely appauling. it is just the same for the irish travellers too.the irish in themselves are actually travellers who ended up in ireland due to slavery and war, and also because for a long time as it is agian to be a criminal offence to exist if you are a gypsy. It used to be punishable by death or exilled from this land.
I for one am not in agreement with you in that we must now settle and give up our way of life just because of esducation. I believe it is possible to both be educated and to educate others and continue to be a travelling gypsy.We are the educators of our children and it is up to us to empower our people. and instead of allowing others to dictate our futures our past and our ways of life it is up to us to take a stand and end discrimination and mis-understanding of our people.
I must go now but i will get back to you soon.
All the best, Valerie |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 13 Jul 2007 05:40 |
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i have tried to live in a house for the sake of educating my children for the last ten years and let me tell you,
i feel like i am in a prison with no other inmates for company, I educate my children not hte school. I taught my girls to read and to do arithmatic myself as the school doesnt teach them until they are six years old. my eldest daughter was a profitient reader by this time. they dont teach children arithmatic adiquatly either. they are only expected to be able to count to twenty , and know how to add and take away , by the time they are six. this is a waste of my childs brain.. I have taught them more, they all surpass there tests and peers. However my children due to my stupidity of sending them to school have missed out on many skill that as a small child i took for granted. they only know how to make what they are told not what they need or are able to produce, they dont know how to mix with a wider variety of peoples and cultures. they get shy. having no-where to keep animals and living in a city they have very little appiture with animals and nature. They get exited at a squirrel in the garden. my childrens confidence is very fleeting as teachers do not encourage self awareness and self ability, they have to keep inline with schools remit. My children have imagination but this is not encouraged. they also wont be encouraged to learn about gypsies in this country, I never was.I only leared that our people was victims of the holocaust recently, as it stands my children wont be taught
in school either.School teaches people to be average and if you are not average you are not welcome in society. Romani and Travellers are and never was average, like many others.
Many of our people due to the experiences with schools and governing bodies have had there confidence in there own abilities taken away from them. We are perfectly capable of doing the things our poeple need but because we have education or lack of it pushed down our throats we are made to think we are not good enough. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 16 Jul 2007 11:01 |
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hi the site seems not to be running too well but if any-one would like to chat i have a place called myspace please feel free to drop by
i am tring to see if i can get a chat wiggit on the page i have put one on i hope it works.
my addi is MySpace URL:
http://www.myspace.com/valerierackly
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 18 Sep 2007 02:30 |
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Victor;
the reasons romani and gypsies dont always want there children in school is very mixed and complicated.
in my experiences these are some of the things i have found when sending our children to school.
1. Discrimination. from teachers, head teachers other children and there parents.
2. Bullying, being told your dirty or treat like you are not a part of this society.
3. children being taught things that we dont want our youngsters learning.
4. things taught in school not being relevent to there lifes when they leave school.
5. being taught what to think and not how to think for themselves.
6.girls being lead and influenced by a deteriorating moral and culture code of living.
7. children having adult relationships out of marriage.
8. children being groomed at the school gates.
9. schools offerd for them to go to being a substanderd school often in areas of high deprivation and high unemployment also where familys have broken down which leads to high crime health and living standards. The children arent taught to appreciate school it is just a place for perents to send there children due to legislations not to learn, make themselves better not to give them opertunities but to keep them in line with goverment expectaions.
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 19 Sep 2007 16:03 |
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| My dear Valerier.you must be kidding,this things that you wrote only can happen in the Balkans to our Roma/gypsies, or Romania etc, but not in England, I just cannot believe that this is happening, so my advice to you is first, give up those ancient cultures, which have been out dated,second be more, more flexeble with your children, don't forget we have only one life to live,third give them education so that in the future they will be somebody,fourt, try and find a country that does not discriminate other wise I don't see a way out for you, and the way you think, forget the old days, live now and be happy, with your children Victor |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 21 Sep 2007 02:13 |
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victor you wrote;
Posted By Victor on 19 Sep 2007 16:03
My dear Valerier.you must be kidding,this things that you wrote only can happen in the Balkans to our Roma/gypsies, or Romania etc, but not in England, I just cannot believe that this is happening, so my advice to you is first, give up those ancient cultures, which have been out dated,second be more, more flexeble with your children, don't forget we have only one life to live,third give them education so that in the future they will be somebody,fourt, try and find a country that does not discriminate other wise I don't see a way out for you, and the way you think, forget the old days, live now and be happy, with your children Victor [/quote]
I can assure you that what i put in this post is all true and correct, this is what is happening now in 2007 in the united kingdom . A lot of the gypsys and travellers do send there chidren to schools when they are young to learn to read and write, but when you are bullied and discriminated against when you are only a little child you soon learn that all that education has to offer is not what is needed to succed as a human being in this life.
If education is the key thn why are not more people succesful. Out of the gorga people that go to school only twenty percent of them go on to be succesful, what happens to the other eighty? they go on in life pretty much just making do with there lives. On the other hand my people gypsy's goon to be keepers of themselves not having to answer to a boss or working all the hours god sends to line the pockets of some-one else. My family going back lets say to 1880's where in fact very succesful horse dealers, they imported and exported horses, they I would say where a very successful family this went on to be a family trade and was something that my great-grandparents did and also my grandparents, they also ad may other trades that made tham a success.
I do not want to and dont see why i should have to give up my culture.
My parents taught me to read, my grandad taught my to respect and to care for myself, my granny taught my to wash clothes andto bake apple pie, to work, my aunts taught me to be helpful, my uncles to be where i need to be to get where i need to be. they taught my about tools and how to fix and mend. my dad i used to go to work with and i learned to drive a horse and how to talk to people i met, how to get people to give you the things you need, Eg when we went out to get scrap metal, I learned at a very young age
what i was wanting to get and how to ask for it. I learned how to barter and how to get a good price.
I can now go any where in the company of people in high office and i can gain there respect with-in a few minutes of meeting them. I learnd how to be pleasant and how to get along.
I was never taught anything like this in school. and tha people who i know who went to school cant walk up to a house and ask them for help or if they need to get work the dont know how to ask for it.
what our people have missed out on in moneys or education of gorga learnings we had and have our own education.
our people dont need bricks and morter to have a home. We dont need a boss to have a carear work or have a job.
We are the educators of our children. you must think we are a ignorant people. I have had more education from my family and my people than any educator could teach.
We love and have respect for our familys, we dont leeve our elderly to fend for themselves as the educated do here. We teach our children to take care of each other. We teach them to work and how to creat ourselves jobs, we dont see failure we just find solutions to our need at the time.
You may think that our children are missing out on something with your education, but our life expectancy is 50 yrs old for a man and around 56 for a woman. if we sent our children to school untill they where beeten and had not learned our ways on how to live it would be too late and our people would die out.
Our people are abused and beaten and killed in this country for being gypsy, I dont know what information you have had before but you seem to have some idealistic image of what is really going on.
I hope and pray to god that our people do not give up on our culture. I dont think they will and i know they wont because i am not alone in how or what i think. I talk to my people all the time and they say what is going on.
It is not use who have to give up who and what we are it is the gorga who need to stop trying to bring us downand accept that we are a people and we are hereto stay.
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 21 Sep 2007 06:08 |
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| may be [b] victor[/b][b] [/b] you should take another look at the dale farm vidoes that are on here. You will see that these people had bought and paid for there own land, they had developed it so it was habitable, there children had been attending local schools, but they still werent allowed to have the right to live. I know of other people who have lived in caravans/trailers on there own land, but because they arent of our race they dont face discimination, and when a traveller moves into a house they still have people commiting perpitrations to them due to there ethnicity. eighter we live in a house or live on the road or on sites or our own land we still get discrimination. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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bang30
Posts:0
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| 21 Sep 2007 08:59 |
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| Hi valarie' i allways like to read your posts . you write well for Gypsys and i can relate to every thing that you write. you do us all proud. |
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bang30
Posts:0
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| 21 Sep 2007 09:02 |
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hi uncle victor' hope your keeping well'
all the best:0) |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 22 Sep 2007 13:14 |
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I only put in what i know uncle and bang.
but i would and will never want romani or gypsy or travellers to give up there culture or there past. And i think i would be a shame to my people to suggest such a thing. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 26 Sep 2007 11:43 |
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| Dear Valerier, I never said to get rid of all your custum or cultire I only said that those outdated custums that do not serve neither us or the gaje, by all means keep those custums or culture which serves you, travel during the summer to avoid trouble with the local authorities, until you will get permission to travel all the time, it is your life, do with it what ever you wish, what I am worried about is the children, while traveling you do not have a chance to give dicent education to your children nuturaly you will always be on the move.Victor |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 28 Sep 2007 05:11 |
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I have been giving victors suggestions that we give up our culture and traditions a little thought over the last few days. And have tried to think of the pros and cons of his suggestion.
Here are a few of my thoughts.( i had to look up a few words to make sure i know what they realy mean and what they imply.
Re; Education.
What is education?
Breeding, cultivation, culture, development, discipline, drilling, indocrination, instruction, nurture, schooling,training and tuition.....
A process of learning or training.;......
I only got as far as Education.
Which of these is it we are to replace with what we already have been taught through our culture and breeding,development and training as romani.
I will write again later. Please feel free to ask me things if you are a passer by as it
will be good for me to discuss my thoughts and to make sence of my own education.
Personaly i do not believe a child or person should be subject to indocrination or drilling. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 28 Sep 2007 08:21 |
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| Dear Valerier, I don't have to tell you that being uneducated is like being blind, to be educated the whole world is open to you via books etc, now about our old custums, do you think that it is right to pay for a bride? do you think that is right that you cannot turn your back to a male, and why is this hostile rage towards the gorges as you call them, now you seem to discriminade, the Gorges,as for traveling you know perfectly well that it is out dated. or in time it shall vanish, I repeat live your life as you see it fit,as I see it there is no use to argue with you, But I still hope for you good luck. because we are Gypsies whether we like it or not as for our culture there are hundreds of custums which are out dated, I do not want to mention, those that are humiliating, read my book, and you will find out,your friend Victor |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 28 Sep 2007 12:56 |
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Posted By Victor on 28 Sep 2007 08:21
Dear Valerier, I don't have to tell you that being uneducated is like being blind, to be educated the whole world is open to you via books etc, now about our old custums, do you think that it is right to pay for a bride? do you think that is right that you cannot turn your back to a male, and why is this hostile rage towards the gorges as you call them, now you seem to discriminade, the Gorges,as for traveling you know perfectly well that it is out dated. or in time it shall vanish, I repeat live your life as you see it fit,as I see it there is no use to argue with you, But I still hope for you good luck. because we are Gypsies whether we like it or not as for our culture there are hundreds of custums which are out dated, I do not want to mention, those that are humiliating, read my book, and you will find out,your friend Victor
my dear Victor it seems thatwith some people how-ever many books they read or how educated they think they are they still have much to learn about the ways of My romanichal people. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 28 Sep 2007 12:58 |
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I am sorry Victor but I must come from a different group of gypsy's than you.
for as long as I know and have been told, paying for a bride is not one of our customs.Yes i have heard of a dowery.But this as I can see it is not compulsory. And I bet there are not many men in our people who would consider putting his daughter on price to be had. More likely he would lock he up and keep her away from any man.And it is not our custom to take another manse earnings, We are taught to be indebted to no-one, and not take payment for things we haven't earned. It is a new thing where a person inherits the dead s wealth here.
("do you think that it is right to pay for a bride? do you think that is right that you cannot turn your back to a male, and why is this hostile rage towards the gorges as you call them, now you seem to discriminate, the Gorges,")
And as for this about turning your back upon a man. I have never heard of. May be one of the men here has, but i haven't.
And the hostility towards the gorgas. well where do i begin.
We the gypsies are not in one way or another recognised for our role in the victory of world war two. School do not teach that as many gypsies as Jews where incarcerated and murdered in the atrocities of the holocaust. Then recently, gypsy children being separated and humiliated at the hands of teachers. Being denied a home to go to. Hundreds of thousands of gypsy family's in this country have no-where to go. I do not know if you get any news on the housing crisis that has taken place here in England over the last ten years but because we cannot get a mortgage or have funds to purchase housing, we cannot buy a house.The council housing is overstreched and there is a shortage of housing, the government has moneys put aside to build us sites but local councils refuse to build them. A lot of housing associations ask if you are a criminal and don't want criminals in there properties. Well in 1994 it was made law that if you where a gypsy you was a criminal.
A house big enough for the average family here is around £250,000 pounds. And if we buy land to build our own places to live, either in a caravan or to build a house our planning permissions are not passed.
If one of our relatives is dying in hospital, it is our custom to go see the dying person, and that they are treated with dignity and not left to die alone, the husband of my aunt who died last month was put out of the hospital because he had let another relative go in and sit with her. My aunts husband is in his eighties. He wasn't causing any inconvenience, he was clean and wearing appropriate clothing, he was not being rude or arrasing the staff, and they called security and had him removed.
The hostility that comes from me not liking or appreciating the fact that gorga men wait out-side of school gates on the look out for young girls so they can groom them for there perverse practices and to ply them with drugs and drink and cigarettes. I don't see how any decent person could possibly adapt this into there new culture for there old one.
“May be we should begin to give our children guns and knives so they can be like there gorga neighbours. Teach them that if they like they can attack another just because they are different to themselves, us not teach them they are individuals but let them be the same as gorga people, even though there are as many different cultures and different kinds of gorga as there are gypsy”. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 28 Sep 2007 17:37 |
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| Well dear Valerier, you certainly are from a very diffrent clan of Roma/Gypsies,for your information I was a deligate at the covention for the Roma, in Buenos Aires, there were athourities from the human rights organization, and also many others,and also Roma/Gypsy professors from Europe like Bulgaria,and many other countries, I was invited, because of my book that I published to say if there is discrimination in Brazil, I said that in Brazil the constitution proibited all types of discriminations, including sexaul, if you discriminate some one and there are two witneses to prove it , you immidiatly go to jail with out bail, and then you will be fined or jailed, it dependes if the person who was discriminated forgives you! now I also said to the convention, about what I read on this site what is happening in Europe, and the midia does not devulgate it to the world,I asked why ? they promissed, that they will look into it, as for England I am terrable upset, of what I hear from you, about the housing problem etc, now I want to tell you something, here to we have Roma/Gypsies who are selling items from house to house, the also don't send their children to the school for the same reason as your clan does, I am sorry to say these Roma Gypsies in Brazil have a very low income, and are very ignorent 90 percent of them hardly know how to write their names, and the other ten percent, did not pass the 4 grade in school, they are my friends after all they are Roma, and speak my language,that is Romanes, when I say education, I always mean about the high education, don't you want that your child be one of that 20 percent that you have mentioned about the gorges, won't it be wonderfull to be a lawyer a judge etc, then you can have a voice to fight for your rights, but I am fighting for all Roma/Gypsies rights, you cannot imagen how I feel for you and your Family, not only your family but all the Roma/Gypsies families, may God help us, and give us the freedom that we so desperatly fight for.Victor |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 07 Oct 2007 14:54 |
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| My dear Valerier, you say that the our people in Engalnd, the Romanichal, are very diffrent from others,well this is proves that your people have changed, and you still insist that they have not! think about it. your friend Victor. |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 08 Oct 2007 11:34 |
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hello victor how are you. i hope you are well.
I am not too sure what your last post really means, or what motive you have in writing it.
the roots of my of my people seem not to have changed that much from what i can see over the last hundred or so years. The logistics of when and where they live has yes changed but we still need to live in our communities as it has a detrimental effect on our mental health when we are seperated. We want sites to live on. Whats wrong with that? A site is a permenant place where we can reside with provision of fresh water and hard standing where we can send our children to school and access health resourses for our elderly. We dont expect to live in these places for free. the site fees are very expensive. over £100 per week, then there is the other bills. but thats not whats being debated. Our children and us arent wecome in society. you will have read on the other thred what happens when you live as a gorga. it is not as simple as you think that we can just move into a house and all our problems will be solved.
our dedication to our family's is still very strong. And we want our children to carry on how we have lived, and for our way of life not to be pushed aside due to ignorance of our needs as a culture. It is not just us that need to be educated it is also the way for our host countries to embrace when it comes to us living here and taking part in society. it is not long ago in some countries that if you where black or coloured that you where not allowed to travel on a bus or be educated with whites, well if gypsys where of a distinguishing colour you can just bet that us today in any country there is that we would not be allowed to mix either. this has also been true of minorieies being kept from government office, judicial representives, and voting. Here in Leeds there is enough travellers and gypsies to change the government if they where allowed to vote. and if we where on lists to vote it would be on paper that we existed and had needs as citizen Most of the time we dont even get a true representation in the census,s of this country either. so if we dont exist how can we change.And why is it you think it is us that need to change and not the people around us. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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