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kim_ward
Posts:5
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| 23 Oct 2007 08:58 |
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Hi everyone, im new here.
Ok...I'll start from the beginning. Me and my daughter moved into our new house about 12 years ago, she was 7 years old at the time. Everyone was friendly and seemed helpful, within a day our neighbours from across the road started to smile and say hello etc. They seemed friendly but kept themselves to themselves (very much like myself).
My daughter is now nearly 19, and in the past 12 years I have learnt that aside from being civil, our neighbours from over the road actually had a particular reason for being so friendly. They have three sons, one of which has taken a serious interest in my daughter and has been trying to speak to her for many years now. I often told her not to speak to him, as I started to catch on to what was going on. The family seem lovely, the main problem is probably my own over protectiveness. My daughter often tells me im too overprotective. His interest in her has been obvious for many years, and I have to admit, I think she feels the same way about him. The fact that he seems to have been waiting for her for years and used to try and walk her home from college each day, seems unusually genuine compared to the Gorga boys in our town. So i cant deny that he is a nice boy and his family are good people. His family invited me into their home a couple of years ago (they're usually very careful of who they let in). The father told me that his dad was an irish traveller, this didn't surprise me, I somehow seem to have a talent for spotting them lol. I felt that he was brave to tell me this, and wondered why. Now on hindsight, I see that the family seem to trust me and my daughter.
I am not a gypsy or traveller, my daughter's father (God rest his soul) was originally from a Bedouin tribe (Moors). This connection on my husband's side is the closest that my daughter has to any Nomadic influence. This is why I am wondering why the father of the traveller family over our road chose my daughter? He claimed to have psychic powers, Im not sure I believe this, but I have to admit it is bizarre that the family have pinned their hopes on their son and my daughter getting together. My daughter is very proud of her culture and is a strong believer in tradition.
Its more than just young love, it seems serious. That's what scares me, Ive never talked to my daughter about her and the boy, so I dont know how she feels. Am I wrong to stop her from talking to him? Is she old enough to make her own decisions? It seems that I am the only one stopping her and the boy.
What should I do?...Id be interested to hear any comments. |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:230
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| 23 Oct 2007 10:56 |
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Hi Kim.
I have never heard of Irish travellers saying they have psycic powers. Perhaps someone else will correct me. Irish travellers are of a different origin to that of Roms. Roms (Romany) originate from out of Europe (India) and through their journey have brought many mysterious Eastern beliefs and superstitions.
Gorjer is a Romani word.
The Irish travellers speak an old Irish language that has much gaelic influence (so I'm told). All the Irish (we call them just Irish and do not say traveller) I have met and know are very proud of there Irish identity and many are typically Irish Catholic (though not usually the strictess at that, lol).
The Bedouin if I'm correct are a nomadic Arabic people who originate from Saudi Arabia and are mostly in the Middle East though some are through North Africa. The Moors are an African people from North Africa (mostly Morocco) who lived alongside the Berbers. During conflicts with Spain, Spain would call all muslims as moors even though Moors are an ethnic people in their own right.
I personally think you should have a serious heart to heart with your daughter and get her true feelings and intentions. Be honest with each other and express your concerns and love without critism might work.
I personally would rely more on your common sense and judge him as an individual than take into the equation any superstition or psycic belief. Its your daughters welfare you are interested in and not some mumbo jumbo. The chances are if her father was Arabic or North African then shes probably a beautiful girl with a tanned appearance that is pleasing to their eye. All travellers I know think more about marriage and the way the kids will turn out. They see a partner as a life time event and do not approve of divorce.
All kids grow up one day which is the hardest time for all loving parents. Honesty and common sense is always the best policy in my eyes.
All the best
Cj |
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valerierackly
Posts:971
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| 25 Oct 2007 14:02 |
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spreading love and happiness to every-one.:P:):kiss:
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:971
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| 25 Oct 2007 14:03 |
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| good morning. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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kim_ward
Posts:5
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| 26 Oct 2007 02:17 |
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Hi again, thank you for your advice.
One of you mentioned my daughter's origins, yes you are right she has got a tanned appearance and although very modest lol she is beautiful, this is something that many people say, but she doesn't seem to believe it, unfortunately due to what bullies have fed into her head. This upsets me a lot, but anyway, her father's father (my daughter's grandfather) was actually a Tuareg and her grandmother is Arab. I have heard the mother of the irish traveller boy talk about how she would like her children to have a 'nice mix', so yes you are right when you talk about marriage prospects etc.
My daughter is always reading up about irish traveller cultures, beliefs and traditions, and I feel that somehow she is trying to show me how much interest she has (as a kind of hint that she's interested in the boy). Its right under my nose and has been for a long time.
However; its not that simple....
The boy is very possessive over my daughter, although they're not going out with each other and have barely spoken (as far as I know). He pops up all over the place when she's out, which is all very nice, except that sometimes I feel that it is a bit too much. This is the main reason why Im so cautious, you see. So I gathered that he had built up an idea in his head that he would eventually be with my daughter.
One extra problem...lol, is that usually my daughter goes places with her cousins etc. (on her dad's side), she is very close to them. One afternoon however, she went to the cinema with her friend from college, who is Algerian, I thought that the girl would be a good influence and that they'd have a lot in common....I was wrong. The girl dragged the evening out and there I was getting more and more worried. Eventually my daughter came home. Guess who had followed her? Yep, our neighbour.
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kim_ward
Posts:5
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| 26 Oct 2007 02:36 |
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ok, i'll continue:
In our area people are very nosey and everyone knows everyone. There is one particular boy who notices that the irish traveller boy likes my daughter(sorry if Im confusing anyone lol), he seems to have a problem with this and I believe that he stirred up some trouble. You see, the traveller boy being very possessive, doen't like if he sees my daughter speaking to any males. I believe that the 'local trouble maker' , as I'll call him for now, may have made up a story, as after this afternoon/evening out, the traveller boy started to behave differently towards my daughter.
He was always angry when he saw her, although he continued to follow. He started to invite girls to stay at his house, I could see the whole thing was a set-up to make my daughter upset or jealous. My daughter was a little upset, but mainly confused. The girls he would invite would make loud comments about my daughter (about her appearance), it was clear to me that they were jealous but it upset my daughter, it was like the bullies all over again. It was so nasty, if the boy had actually ended up courting one of these girls, and had left my daughter alone, it would have been fine, but instead he wanted to rub it in her face. It seemes quite sadistic, especially as she had done nothing wrong (except for coming home late). The girls that would come to stay at the boy's family's house were very different to my daughter, they seemed to fit the stereotype of the area that we live in (i won't say where lol), it seemed very hypocritical, as he was possessive and seemed to want my daughter to be covered up all the time and yet these girls would be wearing next to nothing (it was the summer at the time, but it was a little extreme). The girls kept visiting, each one acting the same way. It turned out, as like i said everyone knows everyone, one or two of the girls knew the girls who had picked on my daughter at school, so these 'ugly' comments seemed to make sense.
I also found out from my friend's son who lives in the area that the girls turning up was a complete set-up just to get to my daughter. You see the traveller boy has autism and has to stick to routine, all these new faces and sudden changes over at his house seemed very out of character.
Now, everything is back to normal (thank god). It is clear however, that the father of the boy came up with the whole idea to 'punish' my daughter for going out late on her own, with just one other girl. And now....they want us to fall in with their plans, otherwise, they'll invite these girls round again and the tormenting will continue.
It has taken a nasty turn, but despite all this (which I find shocking) I think my daughter still likes him. If we go along with their plans, our life may be easier but I dont like being bullied.
I know that this behaviour is not typical of travellers as I grew up in Ireland and had traveller friends, so I understand the way they are. This particular family are a little unusual in the way they go about things, the boy's mum is not a traveller, it is only his dad. They watch us like hawks, even more so since my daughter went out that evening. I also think that they feel that I am stopping my daughter from being with him, and so they have a lot of anger towards me, although they still say 'hello '
Im so sorry for rambling on, but I feel that no one would understand this situation, and as it has gone on for so long, I would like an answer, and since coming across this website, seeing all of the discussions etc. I wondered what would happen if I told my story. The fact that they are travellers has got nothing to do with the way they have behaved, as in fact the boy's mother, who is not a traveller, seems to be the main one who organised all of the tormenting. This behaviour is very out of character for them, and I do not blame the boy at all for what happened. I think the family has suffered more than we have, as they used to be quiet and kept themselves to themselves, now they are the talk of the town.
Any further advice would be very welcome :) Thank you everyone
xx
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valerierackly
Posts:971
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| 27 Oct 2007 15:30 |
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| How much are they offering as a dowery. I have known a few irish travellers that offer a good deal. And then if she gets sick of him theres always divorce. I knowed one couple aqnd the young man worked for the womans mam and dad to pay for them a new motor and trailler and then one for the boy and girl to live in aswell. I am not sure how much in cash was given but i bet it would have been a good bit for the nice girl as she was. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:971
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| 27 Oct 2007 15:31 |
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| Tell them you want a hundred grand and if they're up for it I'd be planning the wedding as they must be serious. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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kilby
Posts:405
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| 28 Oct 2007 08:58 |
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Just read this. Seams good advice from the bradford lass.
Always remember the basic rule me daddy tolt me
Buy low and sell high. He said thats as how the world goes round. |
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valerierackly
Posts:971
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| 28 Oct 2007 13:22 |
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| hello kilby how are you today. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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kilby
Posts:405
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| 28 Oct 2007 13:59 |
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hello VALERIE.
iM WELL AN HOPE THIS FINDS YOU THE SAME.
As you can see im still not got the best of this yoke yet ha ha.
They do use that a lot but so did lots of older irish .
Isent you picture of grandad hall. Did you get it or have i done that wrong as well.
No harm. Iknow through a friend one of the HALLS you spoke of but i dont like to put names on here
(it dont just seem right) If you see them will you ask if they had an elijah hall way back whose wife was sara. He was born in 1855 and she was from wibsey.
Ya never know. All the best for now. |
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valerierackly
Posts:971
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| 28 Oct 2007 14:11 |
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hi, kilby i know what you mean about the names thing. but we've been alright so far, names have been alright but i have to try not to get too deep into things here , people can easily get the wrong end of you and take things not how they're meant. but i am just a honest person and that sometimes gets me into things i may be should keep out of. I haven't got your picture, have you got my email or can you send it through this site. i think you can.
i have to go now but goodnight and god bless. if i see any of your people i will ask them for you. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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kilby
Posts:405
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| 28 Oct 2007 14:19 |
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Thanks valerie.
Idont know how to send photos on here but i will try to send them to you. One is a photo of old elijah hall (grandad). If you get it see if he looks like any of the halls you know.
Good night an god bless. Me mammy still says that an shes 96 now. |
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Stan
Posts:3
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| 03 Nov 2007 18:20 |
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| Hello Kim, you are right to be very concerned. If the you are happy for your daughter to marry this man, fine. I have reservations; did you say he is autistic? What are the implications? If she loves him and he her o.k. to a point. But behaviour/health problems are for life not just for Christmas. Sorry, but the young people need advice from as many sources as possible. If the man is autistic he has problems with emotions and expressing such: his wife could well be the principal carer of a severly disabled man. If they have a child or two these youngsters could well be fully able bodied etc. but if mother is the carer of a disabled father they may well miss out in lots of ways. How will they live? Can love conquer all? Are the parents looking for a woman from a strong background of "marriage is forever" to acquire a suitable life carer for their son? I feel your gut instinct is a warning! Listen to it! Please tread carefully, you are a strong person of sound mind as is your daughter but please don't assist her without some sound advice. Have you relations who you can go to who will put the young people first in spite of any prejudices or misconceptions of their own.? No, obviously not otherwise you would not be asking here. But please, please try to get your daughter to see what she could be letting herself in for. |
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kim_ward
Posts:5
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| 06 Nov 2007 04:33 |
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Hi Stan, It was nice to read your reply, a different opinion - one that I feel reflects the way im feeling.
Yes, I have thought many times that they are looking for a life-long carer and assume that my daughter will suit the role, which although its all very nice, I see as a bit insulting. The even more shocking thing is that the younger brother of the man in question is also being pushed towards my daughter by the father of the traveller family. It seems that their dad wants some kind of family link, regardless of which son would marry my daughter. My daughter has become cold towards the whole situation but I can see that the family are slowly breaking her down (getting to her) and I feel that if she gave in to their wishes it would be for a quiet life - this of course would be the wrong choice. The obsessive son (the original chosen one) seems to continue with his persuing, despite the fact that his brother is also doing the same. It is a bit like catching a rabbit, see who gets there first. My daughter is very much like a rabbit now lol, everytime she leaves the house, one of them follows her. Other relatives of theirs do the same (follow and watch on his behalf) - its like the middle ages! lol. Its not a laughing matter I know, but we have to joke about it sometimes, otherwise it gets too depressing.
I say he's autistic, but this is only from my daughter's and my own observations, I have a feeling that from the family's attitude, they wouldn't like to admit that there is anything 'wrong' with their son.
It is dangerous that they help him with his obsession, where some obsessive types might wash their hands constantly, or keeping checking that they've locked their doors etc., he decides to hunt my daughter down. We haven't confided in anyone about it, as it seems so extreme. He is very determined to get what he wants, and I fear that he will. The emotional side of things confuses me, as he does seem to like my daughter, so perhaps he isn't autistic, im not sure exactly. The father definitely lacks emotion, perhaps he is the autistic one. They are all very deceptive though and very good at what they do.
But it worries me as he (the traveller boy/man) can be seen in his bedroom building up his muscles with weights etc. and he does have a temper. He spends a hell of a lot of time looking at our house from his window. See my point now? I hope so, I think my gut instinct says to steer clear, but its been 11 years now that they have been doing this, they go to any lengths, and have followed my daughter all over the place.
We continue to ignore them and try to carry on as normal. Thank you so much for sharing your viewpoint, it was nice to read it.
Kim
xxx |
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lyz
Posts:201
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| 07 Nov 2007 04:29 |
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Hello Kim,
I don't see why you should, but have you thought of moving? A very awkward situation. My Auntie always says "let your daughters go, make mistakes, then they will come back" Has your daughter told them to leave her alone and that she isn't interested?
If it was my daughter I would defiantly move or let her go and stay with a relative out of the area for a few months. Hope it all works out ok. Lyz |
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tomasso
Posts:12
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| 07 Nov 2007 14:22 |
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Kim,
If that was my chavie I'd phone the old Bill and have the didlo locked up and if the whole family are like it then put a court injunction on the whole lot. At the end of the day she is your responsibility and flesh and blood. I know if someone did that to one of my chavies i'd be livid and murderous. If you don't and she refuses both of them what are you going to do, come on here, weeping when something terrible has happened. I seriously hope it never happens but look statistically at your situation. People are killed by people they know and people are raped by people who are close or people they know.
Cut in the bud, be repsonsible. Tell the old man to lay off, if he doesn't then talk to the police/citizens advice/ solicitor and look at your options VERY carefully.
I wish you and the chavie the best of luck and do keep us posted. I hope it is good news you bring. |
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Stan
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| 12 Nov 2007 17:08 |
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I have thought some more about this and lys and tomasso are both right. I have no children but do have a sister and I would be up in arms if this happened to her.
Get her away either by moving or getting her to stop with the cousins she used to go out with. What this family are doing has a name STALKING. Get the poor girl away from them. |
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Stan
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| 12 Nov 2007 17:08 |
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I have thought some more about this and lys and tomasso are both right. I have no children but do have a sister and I would be up in arms if this happened to her.
Get her away either by moving or getting her to stop with the cousins she used to go out with. What this family are doing has a name STALKING. Get the poor girl away from them. |
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Rhiannon
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| 05 Dec 2007 23:26 |
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Hello Kim,
I am half Pavee (Irish Traveller), as we call ourselves, and this is really not a normal thing we do!
It has nothing to do with me, but it still sounds scary!
What they are doing is STALKING your daughter!
That is against the law as far as I know and these actions can really traumatize your daughter!
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