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da roga
Posts:41
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| 17 Dec 2008 04:13 |
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Hallo everyone.
I have travelled in the Eastern Europe and have seen people working, building up houses and hotels, not houses of their own but just being the unknown workers from out side. What I have wondered - for example in Bulgarian, along the coast of the Black Sea, there is a large construction in process, and a lot or workingmen are doing that project, plenty of hotel boiling is growing up within this area.
But there is also something that arrested my attention. The workers were all Romany men and women. They build the houses and other building and you could see men and women making firewood for the inhabitants of those cities. I was told that the payment for that sort of work is just two euros a day.
This what I saw is against the believe that Romany not want to work in physically like any average workman, instead they elect the role to be a businessman and be wearing neat clothing and keep air as untouchable. So the mojority believe in the northern Europe and this attitude has gained very much dissatisfaction and reputation as lazy folk, among the majority – because they believe Romany being unwilling to work just making their living from the social welfare.
Of course it’s not true. Many roma are hard working in many position and at many ranks in the mordent European.
All that sort of view and suspect comes from bad eyes of the vultures that have seen very little the world and knowing very litle or nothing about the life of people in it.
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Shahnee
Posts:1520
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| 17 Dec 2008 09:40 |
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Hello da roga,
My father-in-law was Sliovenian Rom and spent all his life in Construction - he left Italy and went to the African continent to bulid - he built banks and dams and bridges - he went right across Africa building those things and my husband went to work for him when he was old enuf - so it runs in the family.
My great grandfather was from Ireland and he was a Bricklayer. I know alot of travellers and Rom who work in house buildings, construction and alike - this is not new - this has happened for generations.
I have never met a lazy Rom yet - but i am not surprised that many think we are lazy and dont want to work - because this is just another lie told to so many by so few and people believe it. Maybe now that you have seen it with your eyes you realise somethings are just lies.
All the best to you.
Shahnee x |
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If you think i lie - just ask and i'll prove you wrong |
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da roga
Posts:41
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| 18 Dec 2008 09:21 |
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Hallo
Thanks for the reply. You father -in law must have been great man, I also come from hard working family father been a woodcutter and working in forest all his life, and mum, she was an walking hawker, all that asked hard work to earn the daily bread for six person.
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Shahnee
Posts:1520
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| 18 Dec 2008 11:32 |
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Hello da roga, -
Yes he was a great man and his constructions can be seen on currency over there - but he was treated badly by the Gadje overseers and died almost pennyless - it was devastating to see how they turned their backs on such a man - they never gave him reconition for the things he built!
My father-in-law had 7 children and you are right, wether in Construction, Woodcutting or Hawking, its hard outdoor work and all to keep and take care of your family.
I think that every man and woman who works so hard to take care of their own are GREAT PEOPLE - so therefore your parents were were also.
By the way, i must apologise, i think i may have forgotten to welcome you to site, so sorry, welcome, my friend and i look forward to talking with you more.
All the best to you'
Shahnee x
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If you think i lie - just ask and i'll prove you wrong |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 18 Dec 2008 14:18 |
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| wher would you get the idea Rom where lazy from. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 18 Dec 2008 14:20 |
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| i didn't know that many countries had social welfare? |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 18 Dec 2008 14:23 |
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| Are business men lazy where you come from, because the ones i know here work very hard and they make sure they get paid just as well. unlike the work-man who works to make the business man rich. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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da roga
Posts:41
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| 18 Dec 2008 23:49 |
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Good Morning everyone
Thanks for the replies. There were many questioned and I try to answer to each of them. The hard outdoor work I know very well I have forced to work in it since 14 years old and so did all my family.
I was born in Finland and former of my father home situated in the Karelian Isthmus near the city of St Petersburg.
When the Winter War break out the civilians of this area had to be evacuated and moved deeper into Finland.
My father, as everybody else there, had to fight on against the enemy on their front door and in the forest.
Well it was as it was and the home was lost to Soviet Union.
Why they call Romany as lazy folk in Finland? Hart to say anything to be sure but without doubt certain groups of Romany really looks living lazy with the aid of the social welfare, and some of them make themselves guilty of stealing and many kind of crimes.
That is very bad... because that sort of life style it just makes worse the situation of Roma and the attitude of "gaje" remain suspect. And above all it hampers the normal life of those working Roam who wanted live as people among the people.
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Shahnee
Posts:1520
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| 20 Dec 2008 07:28 |
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Hello da roga,
Ya know that it is the one rotten apple that spoils the barrel - people always pick on the odd bad un and think the rest are the same - dont matter which race or place ya belong to!
Thats the problem, in the main most folk are hardworking good folk - simple as.
All the best to you,
Shahnee x |
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If you think i lie - just ask and i'll prove you wrong |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 22 Dec 2008 17:09 |
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| Well mr. Da Roga, I wellcome you to the J.F. I am a Rom a lovari, is my clans name, my father is from Russia,he was all his life a horse trader or a musician, we had to run to China because of the civil war in Russia,that is were I was born, to cut this story short, now I am a writer and an activist for my people who suffer, now in Italy and the Balkans, I became a activist because my relitives in Sweden are also ativist and they administrate a Romani web site by the name of Romsknet,my work is to write letters to the Human rights, world community etc,to try and convince them that we the Roma are not what they think we are, we are not lazy for work, but as you say that they recieve two E.U. a day of hard work this what I call is taking advantage of our people, and yet they discriminate us say bad things about us, and some times they provoke us, to do bad things, that is how some of our people get marginilized, but I have faith in God, and some good people in this world of ours, we have come a long way since the second world war,and our movement has just started, Victor |
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da roga
Posts:41
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| 23 Dec 2008 10:05 |
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HALLO AND THANKs FOR All THAT REPONSES.
And big hello to Mr Victor.
At first I would like to say that I know you Victor, for I have read quite much of the conversation you have kept on. I have also registered the subject you have talked about, being one of the most vital matters in our time, the rain is not waiting.
It looks like you have lived long and remarkable life which – no doubt, that could be the source of many remarkable stories, and above all - the lifelong journey have given to you a good stage for observation to these many things that otherwise might been left unseen and forgotten..
Unfortunally I haven't got your book yet. For the bookshops I have came around couldn’t find it, as I am shot of that so important plastic stick which they called as the credit card – there is no let any means to get your books delivered.
I am curios to know how a roma become regarded among each the nation they are living with.
I have heard the world ‘racism’, but think it isn’t the right word to describing the attitude of the majority against Roma everywhere. I think that the word racism was more suitable in South Africa during the apartheid for there is too little knowledge arable to say anything about human races like gipsy.
More suitable could be called the problem as problem of ‘caste’ that is the lowest caste in society. There is no a group or class who wanted be the lowest one, if there is ever recognized some human group or nation been regarded as low caste, the never will have the same possibility to be a big nose as the saying is going.
People accept a wealthy gipsy; a gypsy could establish his reputation among majority as diligent iron collector well out horse dealer. Society could accept a gipsy writer as far as the writer is writing about gipsies.
But never yet, any society will accept a gipsy become an academic in fear that accepting a gipsy in height rant it would lower the value of the institution.
One could say that there is much exaggerate in this topic but I say; there is not.
Greeting fro the road
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 23 Dec 2008 10:50 |
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My friend I thank you for humble words,my friend, I would very much like to know, if you are a Rom, and if you are from what clan are you? you seem to be very interested in our fight for our freedom, and maybe who knows you might help us from where you are, my friend I am 77 years old and have seen the world upsite down, as i have already said we have came a long way internationaly, about discrimination, but as you may already know, what is happening in Italy and the Balkans with our people, we have 150.000 Gypsies in Italy today, not to mention the Balkans, my fears is that so much people may turn violent if they will continue to treat us this way, that is how terrorismo is born, from misery prejudice brutality, so this must stop, I am sick and tierd to say to the activist to be more agressive Diplomaticaly, in the U.N. and specialy the E.U. they promise I mean the U.N. athourities, but there seems someting to be hoding them back, I am not for violence I have seen that in China, I want libirty for our people in peace, or else God have mercy on our souls i say this because the movment has started, know only time will show.
Victor |
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da roga
Posts:41
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| 24 Dec 2008 07:58 |
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Thanks Victor.
I am rather old man too, now in Greek and on the road for Bulgarian. I am a member of one daygi branch of the kale tribe mixed with redrew. Well, I don't know about the variations enough - between gypsies, to say anything that could improve the matter. Only I know what I had mentioned above, for been at naval college long ago - I got familiar with the air of the suspiction for reason of the status that the college was born..
Merry Chrismas for all there |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 24 Dec 2008 13:08 |
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| my dear friend Da roga, I thank you that you have answerd me, my friens we also have kale in Brasil but the diffrence between the kale of Spain that I met is termendous these Brasilian kale have unfortunately lost our language time has done the damage, and they still wear those old Gypsy style dresses, usually their mouth is full of gold teth, mostly women of course,they are always living in the north of Brazil that is the poorest part of the country, they still use tents to live in,may be because it is always hot up there, they are not miserbly like in E.U. who live in Ghettos, and are not brutalized,or being discriminated, in Brasil there is very little discrimination, it is totaly prohibited to discriminate, any way they live selling bronze utensils which thier husband make, and are good sales men, and have new cars to carry them to work or to travel but to live in a house is absolutely tabbo, they still buy and sell their brides, with gold coins, in all my years in Brazil I saw them a few times, so I cannot say today how they are doing it is said that they have arrived in Brazil 400 years ago. so, Merry Cristmas my friend and a happy new year, and may God bless you and your family and also those who are with you, Victor |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 24 Dec 2008 13:08 |
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| my dear friend Da roga, I thank you that you have answerd me, my friens we also have kale in Brasil but the diffrence between the kale of Spain that I met is termendous these Brasilian kale have unfortunately lost our language time has done the damage, and they still wear those old Gypsy style dresses, usually their mouth is full of gold teth, mostly women of course,they are always living in the north of Brazil that is the poorest part of the country, they still use tents to live in,may be because it is always hot up there, they are not miserbly like in E.U. who live in Ghettos, and are not brutalized,or being discriminated, in Brasil there is very little discrimination, it is totaly prohibited to discriminate, any way they live selling bronze utensils which thier husband make, and are good sales men, and have new cars to carry them to work or to travel but to live in a house is absolutely tabbo, they still buy and sell their brides, with gold coins, in all my years in Brazil I saw them a few times, so I cannot say today how they are doing it is said that they have arrived in Brazil 400 years ago. so, Merry Cristmas my friend and a happy new year, and may God bless you and your family and also those who are with you, Victor |
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 24 Dec 2008 13:09 |
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| my dear friend Da roga, I thank you that you have answerd me, my friens we also have kale in Brasil but the diffrence between the kale of Spain that I met is termendous these Brasilian kale have unfortunately lost our language time has done the damage, and they still wear those old Gypsy style dresses, usually their mouth is full of gold teth, mostly women of course,they are always living in the north of Brazil that is the poorest part of the country, they still use tents to live in,may be because it is always hot up there, they are not miserbly like in E.U. who live in Ghettos, and are not brutalized,or being discriminated, in Brasil there is very little discrimination, it is totaly prohibited to discriminate, any way they live selling bronze utensils which thier husband make, and are good sales men, and have new cars to carry them to work or to travel but to live in a house is absolutely tabbo, they still buy and sell their brides, with gold coins, in all my years in Brazil I saw them a few times, so I cannot say today how they are doing it is said that they have arrived in Brazil 400 years ago. so, Merry Cristmas my friend and a happy new year, and may God bless you and your family and also those who are with you, Victor |
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Romanywonder
Posts:18
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| 28 Dec 2008 16:48 |
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| I would just like to add my view on this unfair belief mainly by the gorgis theirselves. That a majority of Romany/Gypsys people i have met and known including members of my own family. Have been exceptional hard workers and keeping their homes spotless. Infact i have known these people to do the work of two or three people making it very profitable for the upper man (boss). I have a cousin for e.g she can run her production line with just 3-4 people because she does the work of two to three people and have done this job for 32 years. My mum use to work very hard in a factory she would leave for work at 6.30 and get home at 6.30 -7.00 pm also keep her home up together and always have a meal on the table for my dad. Myself i have always worked since the age of 16 and still do. I went back to work when my son was 3 months old and the job i now do would normally taken 2 people to do but i do it all by myself.Even if i was to be at home all day i would never just sit around as i always like to be doing something i think it's just in my blood. |
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da roga
Posts:41
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| 29 Dec 2008 00:48 |
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Salut! everybody there.
It feels quite cold here in east Europe the thermometer showing 5 degree minus C in night and slightly snowing.
Well. I was reading the Victor’s message with great interest in whist he told the gipsies in the northern Brasilia been wearing in their traditional clothes, I would like to inquiry, what kind of clothes is the gipsy clothes, and what is the gipsy fashion, mentioned and disturbed at large.
There is the black long velvet skirt of women in Finland and decorated blouse, and those clothes have been object of the common debate for reason that the clothes – that they so obstinately call as the clothes of culture, or costume of culture – and that sort of costume in everyday fashion seems being one obstacle to get a work, in common working market.
And in many case the long skirt had been found been good hide to be conceal from sight when carry out stolen things of all sort.
There the clan have separated the other part wanting wearing like the majority and the other part keeping their old way and fashion to wear, and taken strict attitude against all new ideas that could be treat to the old lifestyle – that frankly speaking - cannot support itself any longer in hour time.
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Victor
Posts:213
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| 29 Dec 2008 15:40 |
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| My friend Da Roga,well, these Kale Gypsy women do not wear their cloths which are long flufy and colorfull, but it is not what you say that some use them to hide as you say stolen, goods.with this remark you have belittle our Gypsies, and that I don't like, may be there our GYpsies steal. but here they don't and when you speak of GYpsies, think twice, before you write such nonsence, I am a Gypsy and I am proud of it |
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valerierackly
Posts:1041
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| 13 Jan 2009 09:10 |
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Hello all,
I thought i'd write a bit in here of what i have been thinking of the matter of the Rom at work. As a people I'd say we are a race of survivors. We can do and will work when we have the need to, we have adapted through-out the ages with the skills and occupations. All in the name of suvival. we can roam from place to place and the next morning be ready to go to work and earn a daily wage. there have been many times when food and money has been a very scarse . . we must take each day as it comes and be glad we are still here and we must all stop tearing each other down with discouraging words and thoughts. How can we be a nation of lazy people. after all no work and you starve. With some of us its the men that work and with others its the women. that doesn't make the ones that stay home lazy that means that if say the woman works then its easier for her to make money than it is for the man. or in other places where mens work is easier to come by or where it pays more to do so then the men are doing there duty to there familys just as the women are when going out to work. i know that my family both the men and the women worked, as it is profitable to do so. and they also work together. sharing each others job. My granny was a hawker,but my grandad would also make things for her to hawk. my grandad would sometimes collect scrap iron and my granny would sometimes go with him. I know of cousins who both man and woman would go out grinding, the woman calling the houses and the man doing the sharpening and fixing of items from there customers. they would change rolls as the area they where in required.
And as for social welfare its hardly enough to keep a person alive on let alone live a life and keeping a family with. And if you've not enough for basic living how could you live in luxury and have the best clothes and keep yourself as untouchable. this makes no sence. they have to be earning there keep from some-where. the roma would work if there was work to be done. I know that for instance the romanian gypsies have no work. i know people who have gone out there and they have reported back that there is no work, they have to grow there own food and live in crammed slums, this is where they have to live. they have been pusicuted and stay in there places as they have no-where else to go to.They have no money and very few if any posessions. the whole country is poor and there is very little work there. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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