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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 19 Jul 2007 10:39 |
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Hi All 
I have started this thread for Shnooks in answer to a question under a different topic. I'm sure others can contribute more to this subject  |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 19 Jul 2007 10:53 |
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| The Romani. The Romani are a group that originate from India. They speak an NW Indian language that is very close to Panjabi with Rajasthani grammar. It also has a heavy Sanskrit influence. Sanskrit was the original Indo-European language spoken over much of India. All the other Indo-European languages of India come via Sanskrit. Sanskrit is very close to ancient Persian.
DNA testing of the Romani people has confirmed that the Roms originate from the Indian subcontinent. |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 19 Jul 2007 10:59 |
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| The Gypsy 'Gypsy' is an old shortened form of the word Egyptian. It was originally used in reference to travelling people as people once thought the Roms were Egyptian as it is recorded that some of the first Roms into Europe had a letter from the King of Germany saying they were from 'little Egypt'. According to historians 'little Egypt' was a title for lands in what is now Turkey. Due to a number of Byzantine Greek and Armenians words absorbed into the Romani language we can determine that the Roms must have stayed in Turkey for a while prior to moving into Europe.
Nowadays the term gipsy is commonly used for all travelling people. |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 19 Jul 2007 11:20 |
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In addition to the letter from the King of Germany ( / Holy Roman Empire) being the probable source for the term gipsy, there is also verses in the book of Eziekiel of the Jewish canon & the Old Testerment of the Bible which say scatter Egypt throught the nations of the world (Eziekiel 29.12, 29.13, 30.23 & 30.26). It then says that he will gather them from the nations from which he scaterred them. As Europe was heavily Church lead at the time, many people over the years would have heard or read these verses and instantly confirmed a conclusion that this was the origin of the Roms. If they had however read the verse with more acuracy, then they would have noticed it was a direct punishment with famine etc and the Egyptians would have already have already returned by the time the Europeans were reading the text. In addition to this, another example of Europeans using the Bible as a source of confirming in their own minds a people identity is the verse in Genesis 4 where it says that Cain begot people who lived in tents and made metal work and played harp and flute.
What they failed to recognise in their positive conclusion is that this was before the flood and in accordance to their belief all modern people come from Noah and his three sons.
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 19 Jul 2007 11:30 |
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| SHOWPEOPLE, CIRCUS & FAIRGROUND FAMILIES These people are a different group to the Roms. I believe they are a mix of different people from different performing backgrounds that took to travelling to seek their audience.
They speak a language known as 'Parlary' which I believe is as diverse in origin as the people who created it. It has much Italian which is probably due to many Italian performers at that time. |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 19 Jul 2007 12:00 |
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| Irish Travellers / Scottish Travellers I believe were originally from Ireland. They speak a language called Shelta which I believe is predominently comprised of ancient Gaelic. |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 19 Jul 2007 12:23 |
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| LONDONERS
Within the English traveller talk is 'Cant' which I believe is a language that was from the poorer regions of London such as the Eastend (Stepney, Whitechapel etc). Back before modern farming, thousands of families from the poorer inner city neighbourhoods would live out in the countryside during the summer months to supply the much needed workforce of the farms. Kent was named the 'garden of England' as it was mostly responsible for supplying London with food. Thousands of East Londoners would leave their city squashed in homes and go to live in old caravans or makeshift shacks.
At this time the farms were also a place where the other traveller families such as Irish & Romani would find an income. Swish cockney inner city lads and lasses would have had a taste of country life and would have lived a semi-nomadic life. Many may have decided a life out the city in an old caravan was better and more rewarding than cramped inner city life. |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 21 Jul 2007 22:48 |
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| Just want to change something - The showground language is apparently 'Parlyaree' and not parlary. |
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| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
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| Author |
Messages |
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
|
| 07/19/2007 10:39 AM |
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| Hi All
I have started this thread for Shnooks in answer to a question under a different topic. I'm sure others can contribute more to this subject |
|
|
|
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
|
| 07/19/2007 10:53 AM |
|
| The Romani. The Romani are a group that originate from India. They speak an NW Indian language that is very close to Panjabi with Rajasthani grammar. It also has a heavy Sanskrit influence. Sanskrit was the original Indo-European language spoken over much of India. All the other Indo-European languages of India come via Sanskrit. Sanskrit is very close to ancient Persian.
DNA testing of the Romani people has confirmed that the Roms originate from the Indian subcontinent. |
|
|
|
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
|
| 07/19/2007 10:59 AM |
|
| The Gypsy 'Gypsy' is an old shortened form of the word Egyptian. It was originally used in reference to travelling people as people once thought the Roms were Egyptian as it is recorded that some of the first Roms into Europe had a letter from the King of Germany saying they were from 'little Egypt'. According to historians 'little Egypt' was a title for lands in what is now Turkey. Due to a number of Byzantine Greek and Armenians words absorbed into the Romani language we can determine that the Roms must have stayed in Turkey for a while prior to moving into Europe.
Nowadays the term gipsy is commonly used for all travelling people. |
|
|
|
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
|
| 07/19/2007 11:20 AM |
|
In addition to the letter from the King of Germany ( / Holy Roman Empire) being the probable source for the term gipsy, there is also verses in the book of Eziekiel of the Jewish canon & the Old Testerment of the Bible which say scatter Egypt throught the nations of the world (Eziekiel 29.12, 29.13, 30.23 & 30.26). It then says that he will gather them from the nations from which he scaterred them. As Europe was heavily Church lead at the time, many people over the years would have heard or read these verses and instantly confirmed a conclusion that this was the origin of the Roms. If they had however read the verse with more acuracy, then they would have noticed it was a direct punishment with famine etc and the Egyptians would have already have already returned by the time the Europeans were reading the text. In addition to this, another example of Europeans using the Bible as a source of confirming in their own minds a people identity is the verse in Genesis 4 where it says that Cain begot people who lived in tents and made metal work and played harp and flute.
What they failed to recognise in their positive conclusion is that this was before the flood and in accordance to their belief all modern people come from Noah and his three sons.
|
|
|
|
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
|
| 07/19/2007 11:30 AM |
|
| SHOWPEOPLE, CIRCUS & FAIRGROUND FAMILIES These people are a different group to the Roms. I believe they are a mix of different people from different performing backgrounds that took to travelling to seek their audience.
They speak a language known as 'Parlary' which I believe is as diverse in origin as the people who created it. It has much Italian which is probably due to many Italian performers at that time. |
|
|
|
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 07/19/2007 12:00 PM |
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| Irish Travellers / Scottish Travellers I believe were originally from Ireland. They speak a language called Shelta which I believe is predominently comprised of ancient Gaelic. |
|
|
|
|
Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
|
| 07/19/2007 12:23 PM |
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| LONDONERS
Within the English traveller talk is 'Cant' which I believe is a language that was from the poorer regions of London such as the Eastend (Stepney, Whitechapel etc). Back before modern farming, thousands of families from the poorer inner city neighbourhoods would live out in the countryside during the summer months to supply the much needed workforce of the farms. Kent was named the 'garden of England' as it was mostly responsible for supplying London with food. Thousands of East Londoners would leave their city squashed in homes and go to live in old caravans or makeshift shacks.
At this time the farms were also a place where the other traveller families such as Irish & Romani would find an income. Swish cockney inner city lads and lasses would have had a taste of country life and would have lived a semi-nomadic life. Many may have decided a life out the city in an old caravan was better and more rewarding than cramped inner city life. |
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Cj Eastwood
Posts:233
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| 07/21/2007 10:48 PM |
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| Just want to change something - The showground language is apparently 'Parlyaree' and not parlary. |
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| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
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ActiveForums 3.7
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