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ant
Posts:1
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| 03 Apr 2010 20:55 |
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| Dale Farm – UK's largest Gypsy Township?
by Michael Smith (Veshengro)
If you tell a lie often enough people may believe it seems to be the attitude of various people who insist on calling Dale Farm, in Basildon, Essex (UK), the UK's largest Gypsy township. However, thousands of times over saying it will not make this illegal camp of Irish Travellers into a Gypsy settlement or even township.
Irish Travellers are not Romani and therefore are not Gypsy, as it is or at least was understood in the ruling of the Law Lords. That is the reason why the “Caravan Sites Act” referred to “Gypsies and other Travellers” and was not calling all Gypsies. The Irish Travellers are Travellers but not Gypsy, as they are not Romani, and they cannot be made into Ro mani how ever hard some people may like to try. Even the fact that the Roma(ni) Union basically made them sign themselves into the IRU as “RoMA2 still does not make them Romani or Roma. I do assume, however, that this is rather difficult to understand by some people.
Why the Gypsy Council wants all Gypsies of the UK to unite and then cities to start with this trash about the Dale Farm illegal Irish Traveller camp can only be a mystery.
Gypsy, according to the real and true understanding, are, also according to the old Oxford dictionary, the Romany, of a travelling Race, originally from (Northern) India. It makes no mention of Irish Travellers and especially not of the kind that is illegally encamped in on that location in the Basildon area of Essex.
Those are but pretenders even as far as Irish Travellers are concerned as they are not thos that are of the real Travellers of Ireland but the offspring of those that came to the UK to make use of the welfare state just after WWII. When are the likes of those that are championing their cause are going to understand and admit that. What political mileage are they getting out of this and what financial mileage?
Some of them were jailed in Eire because of their political work for the Irish travellers and they came over into the UK in pursuance of the continuation of this “work” and also, for that reason, never having any real concern for the “real” Gypsy, set up organizations in Britain supposedly for Gypsies but in truth all that was for was for the Irish that cause the Romani, the Gypsy, so much problems. Were it not for the behavior of the Irish Travellers, of the hinditi-meskere, the Romani in the UK would not have been faced with the problems and hostility that we have been faced with ever since around the 1950's.
We want somewhere to live and settle, say the residents at that illegal Irish Traveller camp called “Dale Farm”. So, no problem with that. Get a house or an apartment, rent or buy, you choice. They have been house dwellers before anyway, the great majority of them. Now they, probably, claim “Gypsy Culture” and such like and therefore they could not go and live in a house. The truth is that all they know is scam jobs blacktopping an such and you are not very welcome in a housing estate with tarmac trucks and such.
When it comes to the problems caused by the Irish Travellers to the Gypsy, the Romani, those are now go even beyond the borders of the UK and have reached the European mainland and their behavior is now making it nigh impossible for Sinti and Manouche to go “ap i reisa” in Germany, France, etc. and even the Romani in Norway and Sweden are having problems because of the way Irish Travellers have behaved in those countries.
I shall keep on pointing out the fact that I am pointing out here whether or not some people would like to threaten me and this publication.
We also know why some people kept attacking the background and former affiliations of the late Tom Odley (of blessed memory); it was because he knew of the background of some people that make themselves so big and important in the Gypsy Industry in the UK and elsewhere.
Obviously, some people do not like the truth and Tatchipen is something that they are more afraid of than anything else, it would seem. One can but wonder why. They then to use character assassination in order to make other people look bad, those people that know who and what they really are.
Dosta penauas me djinau.
Remember! Gypsy equals Romani and not simple “people of a travelling lifestyle”. The Gypsy People are a Race, a Race apart. Our People best remember that too.
© M Smith (Veshengro), June 2008
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Moderator
Posts:680
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| 04 Apr 2010 15:43 |
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| Welcome ant a very interesting post. and another point of view ,I am unfamiliar with the background to this so it has been enlightening. |
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Romanywonder
Posts:18
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| 02 May 2010 14:20 |
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| Yes i too have found the above post very intresting and it most certaintly makes a lot of sense to me too. I have always been told that the Irish travellers are different to us Romanies and that they seem to be the ones that give us (romanies) the bad reputation we unfortunatley have to be burden with. I admire you outspokeness personally i don't see any wrong in what you have wrote it's only highlighten the truth about the diferences and help to put Romany culture alive and also for any peeps that may have found out that they have a Romany bloodline running through them and are trying to research about their past culture. There's no oddsing it that there is definetly a big difference between the Irish travleers and the Romany community. |
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victorv1
Posts:114
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| 01 Sep 2010 12:28 |
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I think that the discriminated are also discriminating, why does the Roma, Gypsy travellers do not want the Irish traveller to travel, the Roma Gypsy should thank their lucky star that they live in England, just read what is happening in Europe with our Roma Gypsies, let the Gypsies do not for get that the Irish have their land near by England but we the Gypsies came all the way from India, nad besides you sound like an Romanian, who blames every thing bad on Roma, no my friend again I say do not discriminate other races, let us first get out of our problems of discrimination, you might have trouble with the Irash, but who does not have trouble with his neighbors,
victor |
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becci042009
Posts:7
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| 14 Sep 2010 08:25 |
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| well said victor. we are all travellers we have enough to deal with the gorgas discriminating against us. i am married to irish traveller and most of our ways of life are the same. but i do find that irish traveller and gypsies tend to not agree but dont no why |
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ladylinda
Posts:16
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| 16 Sep 2011 20:13 |
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| Miri nano Jaime had his own views on the subject.
He'd lived in Ireland (well, he lived all over the place to be honest) and of course I knew him when, as a small child on his knee, him being 38 years old when I was born, he spellbound me with his stories and he taught me so much about our people.
He fraternised with Irish travellers and even the crusties because, as he said, even though they didn't have the rat they still tried in their own way to follow the life. Evne if they didn't follow the law of the brothers they still tried to live as travellers so he accepted them even though he didn't really approve of a lot of their ways (especially on cleanliness.)
Sadly he's dead now but I loved him dearly and he made me what I am much more than my mother (who, sadly, seemed slightly ashamed of her Roma origins).
I don't look on the people in Dale Farm as gypsies but then I guess as a posh-rat a pure Roma wouldn't look on me as one either. Like my Mum, I married a gadge and have two kids, a boy and girl.
I think we do right to distinguish between us and other types of travelling folk.
On the other hand, surely the porajmos should have made us the LAST people on earth to be racist? |
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| Author |
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ant
Posts:1
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| 04/03/2010 8:55 PM |
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| Dale Farm – UK's largest Gypsy Township?
by Michael Smith (Veshengro)
If you tell a lie often enough people may believe it seems to be the attitude of various people who insist on calling Dale Farm, in Basildon, Essex (UK), the UK's largest Gypsy township. However, thousands of times over saying it will not make this illegal camp of Irish Travellers into a Gypsy settlement or even township.
Irish Travellers are not Romani and therefore are not Gypsy, as it is or at least was understood in the ruling of the Law Lords. That is the reason why the “Caravan Sites Act” referred to “Gypsies and other Travellers” and was not calling all Gypsies. The Irish Travellers are Travellers but not Gypsy, as they are not Romani, and they cannot be made into Ro mani how ever hard some people may like to try. Even the fact that the Roma(ni) Union basically made them sign themselves into the IRU as “RoMA2 still does not make them Romani or Roma. I do assume, however, that this is rather difficult to understand by some people.
Why the Gypsy Council wants all Gypsies of the UK to unite and then cities to start with this trash about the Dale Farm illegal Irish Traveller camp can only be a mystery.
Gypsy, according to the real and true understanding, are, also according to the old Oxford dictionary, the Romany, of a travelling Race, originally from (Northern) India. It makes no mention of Irish Travellers and especially not of the kind that is illegally encamped in on that location in the Basildon area of Essex.
Those are but pretenders even as far as Irish Travellers are concerned as they are not thos that are of the real Travellers of Ireland but the offspring of those that came to the UK to make use of the welfare state just after WWII. When are the likes of those that are championing their cause are going to understand and admit that. What political mileage are they getting out of this and what financial mileage?
Some of them were jailed in Eire because of their political work for the Irish travellers and they came over into the UK in pursuance of the continuation of this “work” and also, for that reason, never having any real concern for the “real” Gypsy, set up organizations in Britain supposedly for Gypsies but in truth all that was for was for the Irish that cause the Romani, the Gypsy, so much problems. Were it not for the behavior of the Irish Travellers, of the hinditi-meskere, the Romani in the UK would not have been faced with the problems and hostility that we have been faced with ever since around the 1950's.
We want somewhere to live and settle, say the residents at that illegal Irish Traveller camp called “Dale Farm”. So, no problem with that. Get a house or an apartment, rent or buy, you choice. They have been house dwellers before anyway, the great majority of them. Now they, probably, claim “Gypsy Culture” and such like and therefore they could not go and live in a house. The truth is that all they know is scam jobs blacktopping an such and you are not very welcome in a housing estate with tarmac trucks and such.
When it comes to the problems caused by the Irish Travellers to the Gypsy, the Romani, those are now go even beyond the borders of the UK and have reached the European mainland and their behavior is now making it nigh impossible for Sinti and Manouche to go “ap i reisa” in Germany, France, etc. and even the Romani in Norway and Sweden are having problems because of the way Irish Travellers have behaved in those countries.
I shall keep on pointing out the fact that I am pointing out here whether or not some people would like to threaten me and this publication.
We also know why some people kept attacking the background and former affiliations of the late Tom Odley (of blessed memory); it was because he knew of the background of some people that make themselves so big and important in the Gypsy Industry in the UK and elsewhere.
Obviously, some people do not like the truth and Tatchipen is something that they are more afraid of than anything else, it would seem. One can but wonder why. They then to use character assassination in order to make other people look bad, those people that know who and what they really are.
Dosta penauas me djinau.
Remember! Gypsy equals Romani and not simple “people of a travelling lifestyle”. The Gypsy People are a Race, a Race apart. Our People best remember that too.
© M Smith (Veshengro), June 2008
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|
|
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Moderator
Posts:680
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| 04/04/2010 3:43 PM |
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| Welcome ant a very interesting post. and another point of view ,I am unfamiliar with the background to this so it has been enlightening. |
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Romanywonder
Posts:18
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| 05/02/2010 2:20 PM |
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| Yes i too have found the above post very intresting and it most certaintly makes a lot of sense to me too. I have always been told that the Irish travellers are different to us Romanies and that they seem to be the ones that give us (romanies) the bad reputation we unfortunatley have to be burden with. I admire you outspokeness personally i don't see any wrong in what you have wrote it's only highlighten the truth about the diferences and help to put Romany culture alive and also for any peeps that may have found out that they have a Romany bloodline running through them and are trying to research about their past culture. There's no oddsing it that there is definetly a big difference between the Irish travleers and the Romany community. |
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victorv1
Posts:114
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| 09/01/2010 12:28 PM |
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I think that the discriminated are also discriminating, why does the Roma, Gypsy travellers do not want the Irish traveller to travel, the Roma Gypsy should thank their lucky star that they live in England, just read what is happening in Europe with our Roma Gypsies, let the Gypsies do not for get that the Irish have their land near by England but we the Gypsies came all the way from India, nad besides you sound like an Romanian, who blames every thing bad on Roma, no my friend again I say do not discriminate other races, let us first get out of our problems of discrimination, you might have trouble with the Irash, but who does not have trouble with his neighbors,
victor |
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becci042009
Posts:7
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| 09/14/2010 8:25 AM |
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| well said victor. we are all travellers we have enough to deal with the gorgas discriminating against us. i am married to irish traveller and most of our ways of life are the same. but i do find that irish traveller and gypsies tend to not agree but dont no why |
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ladylinda
Posts:16
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| 09/16/2011 8:13 PM |
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| Miri nano Jaime had his own views on the subject.
He'd lived in Ireland (well, he lived all over the place to be honest) and of course I knew him when, as a small child on his knee, him being 38 years old when I was born, he spellbound me with his stories and he taught me so much about our people.
He fraternised with Irish travellers and even the crusties because, as he said, even though they didn't have the rat they still tried in their own way to follow the life. Evne if they didn't follow the law of the brothers they still tried to live as travellers so he accepted them even though he didn't really approve of a lot of their ways (especially on cleanliness.)
Sadly he's dead now but I loved him dearly and he made me what I am much more than my mother (who, sadly, seemed slightly ashamed of her Roma origins).
I don't look on the people in Dale Farm as gypsies but then I guess as a posh-rat a pure Roma wouldn't look on me as one either. Like my Mum, I married a gadge and have two kids, a boy and girl.
I think we do right to distinguish between us and other types of travelling folk.
On the other hand, surely the porajmos should have made us the LAST people on earth to be racist? |
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mishto hom me dikava tuti |
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| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
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