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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 18 Jul 2010 12:29 |
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I've explained in the Introductions section that I'm engaged in an argument with a bunch of intolerant twits on another forum.
Here's the story.
Next week in Edinburgh, there's to be a religious festival (Festival of Light or something). Travellers are arriving in the area and some have virtually taken over a local Park and Ride facility.
Talking to a couple of travellers there yesterday, I found them to be decent and polite people, although, sadly, a police officer has told me that there is a small rogue element among them. (A bit like any community, I guess.)
Anyway, I've got a bunch of bigots ranged against me, all moaning that the police should do something; the travellers don't even pay taxes; they should be evicted; they're all thieves; they're abusive............ And so on and so on........
As I've already said, they're decent and pleasant people who have arrived for nothing more anti-social than a bit of happy-clappy-Christian celebration. Their camp is well orered and tidy. There's no litter or mess. And I've argued these points over and over.
BUT, how do I argue the matter of taxes? Obviously, they all had valid road tax, and they have to pay VAT on everything the buy. But what about income tax?
I really need an anser to that one.
And, as a complete aside, how do travellers manage to road tax their vehicles without a fixed address? In fact, how do they cope with all the general beaurocracy of modern living without a fived address?
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 18 Jul 2010 16:29 |
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| any of the travellers i know who have money have an accountant and as far as i know you only have one of them so you can pay your taxes. i don't know why you'd need one if not. and if they ask about in there own communities they'll probably find traveller women working for them in there glass houses that they are too lazy and dirty to clean themselves, a lot of traveller women think it nothing to have a little cleaning job as they call it as its like money for oldrope to them, thats not to mention the ones working in marks and spences and tescos and morrisons and asda, and all over the place they are just too ignorant to look. we even work in schools and for the bbc, hairdressers, churches, local community groups as i have done, we're all over the place if any-one cared to look. its just that we have learned to be invisable to bigots and indispensable to those we work for. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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Moderator
Posts:553
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| 18 Jul 2010 19:45 |
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| Well I have seen this kind of question asked on many boards and from what I can see from all the various opinions, many travelers are settled now a days and are not "travellers as such" and would have a fixed address and therefor abide by the same rules and pay taxes as anyone else would ? also I believe the religious festivals are well organized and run with all the necessary permissions etc so again a different situation compared to the often reported "illegal camps etc" I think the general public are confused because for legal reasons the government had to define "nomadic lifestyle" "gypsy" etc and for the purposes of law a gypsy is anyone who has no fixed abode etc regardless of ethnicity, but to the public they see "travellers" I guess in a way its not helpful when so many now dont travel as such and just go to fairs etc , and the ones that do still live the lifestyle can be from many backgrounds? Being or shall we say living a chosen nomadic lifestyle does not make one a traveller or Romany or what you prefer to be called, and vice versa living in a house does not mean you arnt a traveller or Romany by descent.just my thoughts . |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 19 Jul 2010 17:31 |
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Thanks for the replies folks!
Valerie, would you mind if I "copied and pasted" your post into that forum I'm arguing in?
It's here:-
http://midforum.editboard.com/index.htm
Then go to "Midlothian Issues" - "Park and Ride" and read from page 5 onwards. |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 19 Jul 2010 17:35 |
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| ......just came back to add that that "Park and Ride" facility they're all beating their gums about was hardly used at all until the travellers arrived. |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 20 Jul 2010 04:53 |
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hi, i just read the forum posts on that midlothian issues page. lol.
i've heard it all before. its not new. i've been hearing things like this all my life. I don't even get offended or anything any more. we gget used to it, you know.
you can use my posts if you want.
i wonder if they'll be crying and turning there approx £125000 pounds that they'll spend in the shops that week down.
it will be more that that but i was just estemating on what we spend and they said there'd be 400 trailers and 1500 visitors. they'll all have to pay to pull on the field and the council or who ever they're renting the place from will get that. its usually about £50 per trailer.
the same with the sainsbury's they where talking about in the forum. theres plenty of people whinging about them but i bet they're all still taking there money when it suits them. usually when a camps set up the shops put the things up so they make quite a packet just on breads and milk and basic things like that, and the gas and electric costs a lot more in a trailer than it does in a house, they all have to be bought locally where you are stopping at. (gas is about £45 per week and electric £35 per week) all purchased locally.
And if the council puts on a facility to clear the rubbish it will cost the tax payer much less. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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da roga
Posts:31
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| 22 Jul 2010 02:40 |
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| Well said. |
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Moderator
Posts:553
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| 22 Jul 2010 12:59 |
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 Gypsy
takeover: 'The park and ride is in lockdown'
Premium Article !
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Article !
To read this article in full you must be
registered with the site.
Published Date:
20 July 2010
There
is no place in a modern, welcoming Edinburgh for any form of
discrimination or prejudice.
And
there are few groups as misunderstood or as isolated from the mainstream
as are Britain's travelling folk. That can only lead to suspicion - and
sometimes worse in terms of the way they are treated.
So it says
much for the city council that it was prepared to allow the six-day Light and
Life Gypsy Church Convention to go ahead. Trouble marred a similar event
in 2004 but a repeat passed off peacefully a year later.
More
importantly, when the Evening News asked local residents for their views
we found most people relaxed about this year's event, so long as
policing is adequate and any mess is sorted out afterwards.
That's
the sort of attitude we would expect in Scotland's Capital, a city
which, after all, is used to welcoming people of all sorts, races and
religions. But the city's response to gypsy visitors will not be helped
by the actions of the 45 or so families who have effectively taken over
the park and ride facility at Straiton.
The 600 spaces there are
supposed to cut congestion and ease the way into the city for commuters
in Midlothian and visitors from the West. Instead, the facility is
effectively in lockdown.
The council is legally obliged to
provide space for travelling folk. Though the only permanent facility is
for 20 pitches, around 400 more will be available for the duration of
the Convention.
Given those efforts, few will sympathise with
those who have decided to effectively requisition a space designed for
an entirely different purpose.
The authorities were right to
take steps to keep the park and ride for its intended use, and they were
right to give the travellers notice to move on.
Source Edinburgh Evening News-
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion/Gypsy-takeover-The-park-and.6428753.jp
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Moderator
Posts:553
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| 22 Jul 2010 13:03 |
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| The above is to show other members what the discussion is about and yet again it seem the few ruin it for the others ? maybe it needs the good ones to sort their own bad apples out? How is another thing ! as many will not speak out about their own doing wrong ? |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 22 Jul 2010 16:24 |
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I regret to say that my alter-ego, Rubbereye, lost his temper on that forum a couple of nights ago.
It's funny, isn't it. Practically no one ever used that Park and Ride place, but suddenly, the traveller-folk move in and it becomes a vital local facility "stolen" from the community by these incomers.
How do you stand it!
Valerie, in a way I'm sorry you don't even feel offended by that sort of prejudice and rank STUPIDITY anymore, because I feel deeply ashamed about the way some of my fellow Midlothianers are behaving.
What have we got here......? A bunch of travellers move in to a barely used Park and Ride. The vast majority - as I found for myself by simply talking to them - are good and decent folk. But a couple of kids chuck stones at buses - and are sorted out. Then a couple of English travellers get a bit tetchy when they realise that Scottish licencing laws don't allow the sale of alcohol on Sunday mornings........... Well, I know nothing about licencing laws in England and Ireland, so what the hell!
What can a Gorgy do?
I'm serious here. Is there any organisation I can join or something I can do to help stop this nonsense? I know literacy is problematic for some travellers. What can I do? I'm angry and I'd like to do something constructive to help. |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 23 Jul 2010 07:49 |
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hello johnny,
it wouldn't do me any good to be offended and it would make me as bad as them. they're just ignorant. you know the geordies once hung a monkey because the thought he was a russian spy. these people are just the same. I feel sorry for them that they're so insecure in there own lives that they haveto spill out there venom on others just to make them feel more important in this life than any-one else. it is a shame for them. some of my family forfathers are from schotland and some england and when i was growing up and went to schools because my accent is a mixture of all over i was always being told to get back where i come from. so i used to ask where i was from al the time. And you know we are from here. all of the uk. we have been here for hundreds and hundreds of years. we have as much right to live here as any-one else, we have been outcast by society for all of those years and yet anytime that the settled people want our help we give it freely. we've fought in there wars and give up our places that have been granted to us by the governments and sherrifs and even the royals, just so the settled people would leave us in peace. half of the places that we stop on as illegal camps and it towns and citys across the country have been traditional stopping places for hundreds of years. its thefault of the acting governments that have taken them away to sell on to the local settled people and to developers, but they have then made no provision for the travellers to stop. we cann't just not exist we're human beings. the uk is our homeland andwe have been here forever so how can we leave and go somewhere else. we are brittish and belong to this country and we are probably owned by the queen, as swans and deer and such are. the queen mother when she was
alive said as much when they tried to ban us from epsom derby a few years back.
as for what you can do there are organisations in england but i dont know about scotland. the recial equality people might be able to help you. or if you look online there is a traveller group in scotland but i cann't remember what its called. a lot of the groups know of each other. if you just google gypy travellers in schotland some will come up. the literacy situation is getting better in the travellers as most go to primary school. and although many settled people think that all gypsies have no fixed address thats a bit of a fable, settled people want to think that. there are only a few percent that are on the road 52 week of the year, a lot do have some-where to winter as we always have. most people if they think carefull will remember a family of travellers in there area, but many just think they where a one off and never gave tham a second thought. they where a part of the community. its just we have all been awash with modern politics and the media to think we are and always have just been a neusance thats just arrived from somewhere else. but really where can we have come from. we where here all the time it just wasnt selling papers then or winning votes. theres a lot of discrimination in this country and its not just against the travellers its any-one who wins political votes, and we have to be careful not to get sucked into a trap of choosing that one human being has more right to live here than another. there aren't many people in the uk who have been here for as many generations with-out being mixed with another race. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 23 Jul 2010 08:12 |
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Posted By Moderator on 18 Jul 2010 19:45
Well I have seen this kind of question asked on many boards and from what I can see from all the various opinions, many travelers are settled now a days and are not "travellers as such" and would have a fixed address and therefor abide by the same rules and pay taxes as anyone else would ? also I believe the religious festivals are well organized and run with all the necessary permissions etc so again a different situation compared to the often reported "illegal camps etc" I think the general public are confused because for legal reasons the government had to define "nomadic lifestyle" "gypsy" etc and for the purposes of law a gypsy is anyone who has no fixed abode etc regardless of ethnicity, but to the public they see "travellers" I guess in a way its not helpful when so many now dont travel as such and just go to fairs etc , and the ones that do still live the lifestyle can be from many backgrounds? Being or shall we say living a chosen nomadic lifestyle does not make one a traveller or Romany or what you prefer to be called, and vice versa living in a house does not mean you arnt a traveller or Romany by descent.just my thoughts .
hi, i have been taught call ourselves travellers to ourselves and gypsy to settled people, that way when we get called gypsy we are not offended ,because really gypsy means that we are dirty and have no morels when that is simply not the case. i know there are exeptions but most of the english gypsies have very high morels and when they are adults have a high standard of morals, and we are taught from early childhood that we have to be clean all of the time, our homes are cleaned each day, what ever we live in. we have always tried to stay with-in the law and show respect to authorities.
the religious festaval thats happening will be very well run, they tend to police it themselves and take all necessary action with people who try to make trouble. but making trouble is very unlikely as many will have come a long way to this festaval and dont want to have to go straigt home. most of the people who are going to it are Born again Christians, of course there'll be the taggers on that just want to go for the company but in the main they are going so they can meet other Christians and spend a week or a few days immersed in God, there will be morning and afternoon meetings fasting and prayer, a kids church a lot of singing and mainly people wanting to enjoy a few weeks off work. there are many of them happening in the summer holidays not just this traveller one, theres a Elim camp in stoksley where it will be the same stuff going off. Travellers and gypsies are just the same as any-one else. yes there are bad ones, but i live where there are lots of settled people and they are just the same. most want a quiet life, some work and time with there families and something to believe in. None of us choose what we are, some of us maybe would choose something different but i accept what i am and i accept what others are, it makes my soul peaceful and i can sleep in my bed secure of knowing who and what i am. i wonder how many others can.......
(just my thoughts mod, just my thoughts) |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 23 Jul 2010 08:14 |
|
Posted By Moderator on 22 Jul 2010 12:59
Gypsy
takeover: 'The park and ride is in lockdown'
Premium Article !
Your account has been frozen.
For your available options click the below button.
Options
Premium Article !
To read this article in full
you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with
the Edinburgh Evening News site.
Subscribe
Registered
Article !
To read this article in full you must be
registered with the site.
Published Date:
20 July 2010
There
is no place in a modern, welcoming Edinburgh for any form of
discrimination or prejudice.
And
there are few groups as misunderstood or as isolated from the mainstream
as are Britain's travelling folk. That can only lead to suspicion - and
sometimes worse in terms of the way they are treated. So it says
much for the city council that it was prepared to allow the six-day Light and
Life Gypsy Church Convention to go ahead. Trouble marred a similar event
in 2004 but a repeat passed off peacefully a year later. More
importantly, when the Evening News asked local residents for their views
we found most people relaxed about this year's event, so long as
policing is adequate and any mess is sorted out afterwards. That's
the sort of attitude we would expect in Scotland's Capital, a city
which, after all, is used to welcoming people of all sorts, races and
religions. But the city's response to gypsy visitors will not be helped
by the actions of the 45 or so families who have effectively taken over
the park and ride facility at Straiton. The 600 spaces there are
supposed to cut congestion and ease the way into the city for commuters
in Midlothian and visitors from the West. Instead, the facility is
effectively in lockdown. The council is legally obliged to
provide space for travelling folk. Though the only permanent facility is
for 20 pitches, around 400 more will be available for the duration of
the Convention. Given those efforts, few will sympathise with
those who have decided to effectively requisition a space designed for
an entirely different purpose. The authorities were right to
take steps to keep the park and ride for its intended use, and they were
right to give the travellers notice to move on. Source Edinburgh Evening News- http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion/Gypsy-takeover-The-park-and.6428753.jp
this event has been happening since 1985 ish, they happen every year in england. its a Christian organisation and church. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 24 Jul 2010 13:24 |
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| That forum I'm still arguing is getting more openly bigoted by the day.
Valerie and Moderator - and anyone else - please write an email of complainst to:-
scotland@equalityhumanrights.com
I have already done so and I am asking others, who are as revolted as I am by the sentiments being expressed there, to do the same.
Free speech has responsibilties attached. Let's show them that abuse of Free Speech also has consequences attached.
The site you are (I hope) complaining about is:-
http://midforum.editboard.com/index.htm |
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da roga
Posts:31
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| 30 Jul 2010 06:07 |
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Good afternoon.
Valerierackly and moderator there, would your be kindly enought to let me have your permission to copy and paste your writing here , for, I found them contain very interesting stuff.
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 30 Jul 2010 14:10 |
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da roga; hello.
i must first before i give my permission what you would be doing with our posts. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 30 Jul 2010 14:38 |
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i was just reading that midlothian forum again. lol. they are a funny old lot aren't they? next they'll all be stoning each other.
i was reading it because i think the mission must have been so quiet and uneventful i was looking for a bit of gossip....... none on the grapevine and none from the locals.lol. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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da roga
Posts:31
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| 31 Jul 2010 07:26 |
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Hello valeri and moderator.
Just as it is, nothing more, nothing less.
with regard
da roga
Posted By Moderator on 18 Jul 2010 19:45
Well I have seen this kind of question asked on many boards and from what I can see from all the various opinions, many travelers are settled now a days and are not "travellers as such" and would have a fixed address and therefor abide by the same rules and pay taxes as anyone else would ? also I believe the religious festivals are well organized and run with all the necessary permissions etc so again a different situation compared to the often reported "illegal camps etc" I think the general public are confused because for legal reasons the government had to define "nomadic lifestyle" "gypsy" etc and for the purposes of law a gypsy is anyone who has no fixed abode etc regardless of ethnicity, but to the public they see "travellers" I guess in a way its not helpful when so many now dont travel as such and just go to fairs etc , and the ones that do still live the lifestyle can be from many backgrounds? Being or shall we say living a chosen nomadic lifestyle does not make one a traveller or Romany or what you prefer to be called, and vice versa living in a house does not mean you arnt a traveller or Romany by descent.just my thoughts .
hi, i have been taught call ourselves travellers to ourselves and gypsy to settled people, that way when we get called gypsy we are not offended ,because really gypsy means that we are dirty and have no morels when that is simply not the case. i know there are exeptions but most of the english gypsies have very high morels and when they are adults have a high standard of morals, and we are taught from early childhood that we have to be clean all of the time, our homes are cleaned each day, what ever we live in. we have always tried to stay with-in the law and show respect to authorities. the religious festaval thats happening will be very well run, they tend to police it themselves and take all necessary action with people who try to make trouble. but making trouble is very unlikely as many will have come a long way to this festaval and dont want to have to go straigt home. most of the people who are going to it are Born again Christians, of course there'll be the taggers on that just want to go for the company but in the main they are going so they can meet other Christians and spend a week or a few days immersed in God, there will be morning and afternoon meetings fasting and prayer, a kids church a lot of singing and mainly people wanting to enjoy a few weeks off work. there are many of them happening in the summer holidays not just this traveller one, theres a Elim camp in stoksley where it will be the same stuff going off. Travellers and gypsies are just the same as any-one else. yes there are bad ones, but i live where there are lots of settled people and they are just the same. most want a quiet life, some work and time with there families and something to believe in. None of us choose what we are, some of us maybe would choose something different but i accept what i am and i accept what others are, it makes my soul peaceful and i can sleep in my bed secure of knowing who and what i am. i wonder how many others can....... (just my thoughts mod, just my thoughts)
May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless
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| Author |
Messages |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 07/18/2010 12:29 PM |
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I've explained in the Introductions section that I'm engaged in an argument with a bunch of intolerant twits on another forum.
Here's the story.
Next week in Edinburgh, there's to be a religious festival (Festival of Light or something). Travellers are arriving in the area and some have virtually taken over a local Park and Ride facility.
Talking to a couple of travellers there yesterday, I found them to be decent and polite people, although, sadly, a police officer has told me that there is a small rogue element among them. (A bit like any community, I guess.)
Anyway, I've got a bunch of bigots ranged against me, all moaning that the police should do something; the travellers don't even pay taxes; they should be evicted; they're all thieves; they're abusive............ And so on and so on........
As I've already said, they're decent and pleasant people who have arrived for nothing more anti-social than a bit of happy-clappy-Christian celebration. Their camp is well orered and tidy. There's no litter or mess. And I've argued these points over and over.
BUT, how do I argue the matter of taxes? Obviously, they all had valid road tax, and they have to pay VAT on everything the buy. But what about income tax?
I really need an anser to that one.
And, as a complete aside, how do travellers manage to road tax their vehicles without a fixed address? In fact, how do they cope with all the general beaurocracy of modern living without a fived address?
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 07/18/2010 4:29 PM |
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| any of the travellers i know who have money have an accountant and as far as i know you only have one of them so you can pay your taxes. i don't know why you'd need one if not. and if they ask about in there own communities they'll probably find traveller women working for them in there glass houses that they are too lazy and dirty to clean themselves, a lot of traveller women think it nothing to have a little cleaning job as they call it as its like money for oldrope to them, thats not to mention the ones working in marks and spences and tescos and morrisons and asda, and all over the place they are just too ignorant to look. we even work in schools and for the bbc, hairdressers, churches, local community groups as i have done, we're all over the place if any-one cared to look. its just that we have learned to be invisable to bigots and indispensable to those we work for. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
|
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Moderator
Posts:553
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| 07/18/2010 7:45 PM |
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| Well I have seen this kind of question asked on many boards and from what I can see from all the various opinions, many travelers are settled now a days and are not "travellers as such" and would have a fixed address and therefor abide by the same rules and pay taxes as anyone else would ? also I believe the religious festivals are well organized and run with all the necessary permissions etc so again a different situation compared to the often reported "illegal camps etc" I think the general public are confused because for legal reasons the government had to define "nomadic lifestyle" "gypsy" etc and for the purposes of law a gypsy is anyone who has no fixed abode etc regardless of ethnicity, but to the public they see "travellers" I guess in a way its not helpful when so many now dont travel as such and just go to fairs etc , and the ones that do still live the lifestyle can be from many backgrounds? Being or shall we say living a chosen nomadic lifestyle does not make one a traveller or Romany or what you prefer to be called, and vice versa living in a house does not mean you arnt a traveller or Romany by descent.just my thoughts . |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 07/19/2010 5:31 PM |
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Thanks for the replies folks!
Valerie, would you mind if I "copied and pasted" your post into that forum I'm arguing in?
It's here:-
http://midforum.editboard.com/index.htm
Then go to "Midlothian Issues" - "Park and Ride" and read from page 5 onwards. |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 07/19/2010 5:35 PM |
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| ......just came back to add that that "Park and Ride" facility they're all beating their gums about was hardly used at all until the travellers arrived. |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 07/20/2010 4:53 AM |
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hi, i just read the forum posts on that midlothian issues page. lol.
i've heard it all before. its not new. i've been hearing things like this all my life. I don't even get offended or anything any more. we gget used to it, you know.
you can use my posts if you want.
i wonder if they'll be crying and turning there approx £125000 pounds that they'll spend in the shops that week down.
it will be more that that but i was just estemating on what we spend and they said there'd be 400 trailers and 1500 visitors. they'll all have to pay to pull on the field and the council or who ever they're renting the place from will get that. its usually about £50 per trailer.
the same with the sainsbury's they where talking about in the forum. theres plenty of people whinging about them but i bet they're all still taking there money when it suits them. usually when a camps set up the shops put the things up so they make quite a packet just on breads and milk and basic things like that, and the gas and electric costs a lot more in a trailer than it does in a house, they all have to be bought locally where you are stopping at. (gas is about £45 per week and electric £35 per week) all purchased locally.
And if the council puts on a facility to clear the rubbish it will cost the tax payer much less. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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da roga
Posts:31
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| 07/22/2010 2:40 AM |
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| Well said. |
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Moderator
Posts:553
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| 07/22/2010 12:59 PM |
|
Gypsy
takeover: 'The park and ride is in lockdown'
Premium Article !
Your account has been frozen.
For your available options click the below button.
Options
Premium Article !
To read this article in full
you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with
the Edinburgh Evening News site.
Subscribe
Registered
Article !
To read this article in full you must be
registered with the site.
Published Date:
20 July 2010
There
is no place in a modern, welcoming Edinburgh for any form of
discrimination or prejudice.
And
there are few groups as misunderstood or as isolated from the mainstream
as are Britain's travelling folk. That can only lead to suspicion - and
sometimes worse in terms of the way they are treated.
So it says
much for the city council that it was prepared to allow the six-day Light and
Life Gypsy Church Convention to go ahead. Trouble marred a similar event
in 2004 but a repeat passed off peacefully a year later.
More
importantly, when the Evening News asked local residents for their views
we found most people relaxed about this year's event, so long as
policing is adequate and any mess is sorted out afterwards.
That's
the sort of attitude we would expect in Scotland's Capital, a city
which, after all, is used to welcoming people of all sorts, races and
religions. But the city's response to gypsy visitors will not be helped
by the actions of the 45 or so families who have effectively taken over
the park and ride facility at Straiton.
The 600 spaces there are
supposed to cut congestion and ease the way into the city for commuters
in Midlothian and visitors from the West. Instead, the facility is
effectively in lockdown.
The council is legally obliged to
provide space for travelling folk. Though the only permanent facility is
for 20 pitches, around 400 more will be available for the duration of
the Convention.
Given those efforts, few will sympathise with
those who have decided to effectively requisition a space designed for
an entirely different purpose.
The authorities were right to
take steps to keep the park and ride for its intended use, and they were
right to give the travellers notice to move on.
Source Edinburgh Evening News-
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion/Gypsy-takeover-The-park-and.6428753.jp
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Moderator
Posts:553
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| 07/22/2010 1:03 PM |
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| The above is to show other members what the discussion is about and yet again it seem the few ruin it for the others ? maybe it needs the good ones to sort their own bad apples out? How is another thing ! as many will not speak out about their own doing wrong ? |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 07/22/2010 4:24 PM |
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I regret to say that my alter-ego, Rubbereye, lost his temper on that forum a couple of nights ago.
It's funny, isn't it. Practically no one ever used that Park and Ride place, but suddenly, the traveller-folk move in and it becomes a vital local facility "stolen" from the community by these incomers.
How do you stand it!
Valerie, in a way I'm sorry you don't even feel offended by that sort of prejudice and rank STUPIDITY anymore, because I feel deeply ashamed about the way some of my fellow Midlothianers are behaving.
What have we got here......? A bunch of travellers move in to a barely used Park and Ride. The vast majority - as I found for myself by simply talking to them - are good and decent folk. But a couple of kids chuck stones at buses - and are sorted out. Then a couple of English travellers get a bit tetchy when they realise that Scottish licencing laws don't allow the sale of alcohol on Sunday mornings........... Well, I know nothing about licencing laws in England and Ireland, so what the hell!
What can a Gorgy do?
I'm serious here. Is there any organisation I can join or something I can do to help stop this nonsense? I know literacy is problematic for some travellers. What can I do? I'm angry and I'd like to do something constructive to help. |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 07/23/2010 7:49 AM |
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hello johnny,
it wouldn't do me any good to be offended and it would make me as bad as them. they're just ignorant. you know the geordies once hung a monkey because the thought he was a russian spy. these people are just the same. I feel sorry for them that they're so insecure in there own lives that they haveto spill out there venom on others just to make them feel more important in this life than any-one else. it is a shame for them. some of my family forfathers are from schotland and some england and when i was growing up and went to schools because my accent is a mixture of all over i was always being told to get back where i come from. so i used to ask where i was from al the time. And you know we are from here. all of the uk. we have been here for hundreds and hundreds of years. we have as much right to live here as any-one else, we have been outcast by society for all of those years and yet anytime that the settled people want our help we give it freely. we've fought in there wars and give up our places that have been granted to us by the governments and sherrifs and even the royals, just so the settled people would leave us in peace. half of the places that we stop on as illegal camps and it towns and citys across the country have been traditional stopping places for hundreds of years. its thefault of the acting governments that have taken them away to sell on to the local settled people and to developers, but they have then made no provision for the travellers to stop. we cann't just not exist we're human beings. the uk is our homeland andwe have been here forever so how can we leave and go somewhere else. we are brittish and belong to this country and we are probably owned by the queen, as swans and deer and such are. the queen mother when she was
alive said as much when they tried to ban us from epsom derby a few years back.
as for what you can do there are organisations in england but i dont know about scotland. the recial equality people might be able to help you. or if you look online there is a traveller group in scotland but i cann't remember what its called. a lot of the groups know of each other. if you just google gypy travellers in schotland some will come up. the literacy situation is getting better in the travellers as most go to primary school. and although many settled people think that all gypsies have no fixed address thats a bit of a fable, settled people want to think that. there are only a few percent that are on the road 52 week of the year, a lot do have some-where to winter as we always have. most people if they think carefull will remember a family of travellers in there area, but many just think they where a one off and never gave tham a second thought. they where a part of the community. its just we have all been awash with modern politics and the media to think we are and always have just been a neusance thats just arrived from somewhere else. but really where can we have come from. we where here all the time it just wasnt selling papers then or winning votes. theres a lot of discrimination in this country and its not just against the travellers its any-one who wins political votes, and we have to be careful not to get sucked into a trap of choosing that one human being has more right to live here than another. there aren't many people in the uk who have been here for as many generations with-out being mixed with another race. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 07/23/2010 8:12 AM |
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Posted By Moderator on 18 Jul 2010 19:45
Well I have seen this kind of question asked on many boards and from what I can see from all the various opinions, many travelers are settled now a days and are not "travellers as such" and would have a fixed address and therefor abide by the same rules and pay taxes as anyone else would ? also I believe the religious festivals are well organized and run with all the necessary permissions etc so again a different situation compared to the often reported "illegal camps etc" I think the general public are confused because for legal reasons the government had to define "nomadic lifestyle" "gypsy" etc and for the purposes of law a gypsy is anyone who has no fixed abode etc regardless of ethnicity, but to the public they see "travellers" I guess in a way its not helpful when so many now dont travel as such and just go to fairs etc , and the ones that do still live the lifestyle can be from many backgrounds? Being or shall we say living a chosen nomadic lifestyle does not make one a traveller or Romany or what you prefer to be called, and vice versa living in a house does not mean you arnt a traveller or Romany by descent.just my thoughts .
hi, i have been taught call ourselves travellers to ourselves and gypsy to settled people, that way when we get called gypsy we are not offended ,because really gypsy means that we are dirty and have no morels when that is simply not the case. i know there are exeptions but most of the english gypsies have very high morels and when they are adults have a high standard of morals, and we are taught from early childhood that we have to be clean all of the time, our homes are cleaned each day, what ever we live in. we have always tried to stay with-in the law and show respect to authorities.
the religious festaval thats happening will be very well run, they tend to police it themselves and take all necessary action with people who try to make trouble. but making trouble is very unlikely as many will have come a long way to this festaval and dont want to have to go straigt home. most of the people who are going to it are Born again Christians, of course there'll be the taggers on that just want to go for the company but in the main they are going so they can meet other Christians and spend a week or a few days immersed in God, there will be morning and afternoon meetings fasting and prayer, a kids church a lot of singing and mainly people wanting to enjoy a few weeks off work. there are many of them happening in the summer holidays not just this traveller one, theres a Elim camp in stoksley where it will be the same stuff going off. Travellers and gypsies are just the same as any-one else. yes there are bad ones, but i live where there are lots of settled people and they are just the same. most want a quiet life, some work and time with there families and something to believe in. None of us choose what we are, some of us maybe would choose something different but i accept what i am and i accept what others are, it makes my soul peaceful and i can sleep in my bed secure of knowing who and what i am. i wonder how many others can.......
(just my thoughts mod, just my thoughts) |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 07/23/2010 8:14 AM |
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Posted By Moderator on 22 Jul 2010 12:59
Gypsy
takeover: 'The park and ride is in lockdown'
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Published Date:
20 July 2010
There
is no place in a modern, welcoming Edinburgh for any form of
discrimination or prejudice.
And
there are few groups as misunderstood or as isolated from the mainstream
as are Britain's travelling folk. That can only lead to suspicion - and
sometimes worse in terms of the way they are treated. So it says
much for the city council that it was prepared to allow the six-day Light and
Life Gypsy Church Convention to go ahead. Trouble marred a similar event
in 2004 but a repeat passed off peacefully a year later. More
importantly, when the Evening News asked local residents for their views
we found most people relaxed about this year's event, so long as
policing is adequate and any mess is sorted out afterwards. That's
the sort of attitude we would expect in Scotland's Capital, a city
which, after all, is used to welcoming people of all sorts, races and
religions. But the city's response to gypsy visitors will not be helped
by the actions of the 45 or so families who have effectively taken over
the park and ride facility at Straiton. The 600 spaces there are
supposed to cut congestion and ease the way into the city for commuters
in Midlothian and visitors from the West. Instead, the facility is
effectively in lockdown. The council is legally obliged to
provide space for travelling folk. Though the only permanent facility is
for 20 pitches, around 400 more will be available for the duration of
the Convention. Given those efforts, few will sympathise with
those who have decided to effectively requisition a space designed for
an entirely different purpose. The authorities were right to
take steps to keep the park and ride for its intended use, and they were
right to give the travellers notice to move on. Source Edinburgh Evening News- http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion/Gypsy-takeover-The-park-and.6428753.jp
this event has been happening since 1985 ish, they happen every year in england. its a Christian organisation and church. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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Johnny Fa
Posts:9
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| 07/24/2010 1:24 PM |
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| That forum I'm still arguing is getting more openly bigoted by the day.
Valerie and Moderator - and anyone else - please write an email of complainst to:-
scotland@equalityhumanrights.com
I have already done so and I am asking others, who are as revolted as I am by the sentiments being expressed there, to do the same.
Free speech has responsibilties attached. Let's show them that abuse of Free Speech also has consequences attached.
The site you are (I hope) complaining about is:-
http://midforum.editboard.com/index.htm |
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da roga
Posts:31
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| 07/30/2010 6:07 AM |
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Good afternoon.
Valerierackly and moderator there, would your be kindly enought to let me have your permission to copy and paste your writing here , for, I found them contain very interesting stuff.
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 07/30/2010 2:10 PM |
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da roga; hello.
i must first before i give my permission what you would be doing with our posts. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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valerierackly
Posts:1036
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| 07/30/2010 2:38 PM |
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i was just reading that midlothian forum again. lol. they are a funny old lot aren't they? next they'll all be stoning each other.
i was reading it because i think the mission must have been so quiet and uneventful i was looking for a bit of gossip....... none on the grapevine and none from the locals.lol. |
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May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless |
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da roga
Posts:31
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| 07/31/2010 7:26 AM |
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Hello valeri and moderator.
Just as it is, nothing more, nothing less.
with regard
da roga
Posted By Moderator on 18 Jul 2010 19:45
Well I have seen this kind of question asked on many boards and from what I can see from all the various opinions, many travelers are settled now a days and are not "travellers as such" and would have a fixed address and therefor abide by the same rules and pay taxes as anyone else would ? also I believe the religious festivals are well organized and run with all the necessary permissions etc so again a different situation compared to the often reported "illegal camps etc" I think the general public are confused because for legal reasons the government had to define "nomadic lifestyle" "gypsy" etc and for the purposes of law a gypsy is anyone who has no fixed abode etc regardless of ethnicity, but to the public they see "travellers" I guess in a way its not helpful when so many now dont travel as such and just go to fairs etc , and the ones that do still live the lifestyle can be from many backgrounds? Being or shall we say living a chosen nomadic lifestyle does not make one a traveller or Romany or what you prefer to be called, and vice versa living in a house does not mean you arnt a traveller or Romany by descent.just my thoughts .
hi, i have been taught call ourselves travellers to ourselves and gypsy to settled people, that way when we get called gypsy we are not offended ,because really gypsy means that we are dirty and have no morels when that is simply not the case. i know there are exeptions but most of the english gypsies have very high morels and when they are adults have a high standard of morals, and we are taught from early childhood that we have to be clean all of the time, our homes are cleaned each day, what ever we live in. we have always tried to stay with-in the law and show respect to authorities. the religious festaval thats happening will be very well run, they tend to police it themselves and take all necessary action with people who try to make trouble. but making trouble is very unlikely as many will have come a long way to this festaval and dont want to have to go straigt home. most of the people who are going to it are Born again Christians, of course there'll be the taggers on that just want to go for the company but in the main they are going so they can meet other Christians and spend a week or a few days immersed in God, there will be morning and afternoon meetings fasting and prayer, a kids church a lot of singing and mainly people wanting to enjoy a few weeks off work. there are many of them happening in the summer holidays not just this traveller one, theres a Elim camp in stoksley where it will be the same stuff going off. Travellers and gypsies are just the same as any-one else. yes there are bad ones, but i live where there are lots of settled people and they are just the same. most want a quiet life, some work and time with there families and something to believe in. None of us choose what we are, some of us maybe would choose something different but i accept what i am and i accept what others are, it makes my soul peaceful and i can sleep in my bed secure of knowing who and what i am. i wonder how many others can....... (just my thoughts mod, just my thoughts)
May the peace of the LORD be with you always. God Bless
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